Hardened valve seats.

[Dan 48 kaiser special]

48 Kaiser Special did they come with hardened valve seats. If not should I have them installed as part of a rebuild.

[MarkH]

I had them installed in my '54 F-head during it's rebuild.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

As far as is known, Kaiser-Frazer and Willys-Overland did not build engines with hardened valve seats.  If you are doing the rebuild yourself, they can be obtained through NAPA.  Restorers of K-F cars started to use hardened seats in the early 1980's.  If I remember right, my 1951 Kaiser Business Coupe (currently at the Ypsilanti Automotive Heritage Collection) has the first engine rebuilt with this feature.  The hardened seats compensate for no more traces of lead in pump gas.

[custom]

My 2 cents  - When I rebuilt the engine on my '48, I decided not to install hardened valve seats. I average 1000 miles a year and I always use a lead substitute with every tank of gas. So far, so good, about 10,000 total miles. no problem

[konrad]

As I understand it, hardened valve seats also allow the possibility of burning today's 10% Ethanol gas, and its higher burn temp.

Of course, there's no reason you'd ever want to use such gas in one of these cars unless you had religiously replaced every gasket, seal, hose and bit of rubber involved in the fuel delivery/combustion system as well...unless you want problems down the road as ethanol will degrade everything in its path, not to mention giving you poorer gas mileage...

Just say no to ethanol and yes to the non-lead, lead replacement additive, and screw the hardened seats...ya don't need 'em.

I believer there is a phone app available to locate stations that still offer non-ethanol gas.  For my part, I plan to keep a spare 5-10 gallons stored in the trunk, depending on my travels...so I know I can get to the next non-ethanol fill up in areas where they are fewer and far betweener. 

[Kory Fox]

How can you tell if the engine has hardened valve seats. My dad says he thinks my grandfather did them years ago but he also thought it had turn signals which it clearly did not.

[MarkH]

..........................I believer there is a phone app available to locate stations that still offer non-ethanol gas.  …………………………..

https://www.pure-gas.org/

[G.B. (All Vinyl Dragon)]

I thought Everyone rebuilding Engine did Hardened valves even in the 60’s ? Also called Propane Valves.
For upper Lube a Quart of automatic Transmission Fluid in Gas Tank with Full of Gas. Marvel’s Mystery Oil in Gas & Also in Oil Engine less apt to Freeze Up.

[konrad]

https://www.pure-gas.org/

Thanks Mark!  I knew there was  a site like that somewhere out there.

Unfortunately, their play store app no longer exists...just tried to find it.  But, the website itself is good enough. 

[rrdcorvair]

Instead of installing hardend valve seats which require machining, there are, as a previous posts mentions, hardend valves available for our engines.  I have done both (different engines - don't do both in the same engine) and we do drive our cars long distances with no troubles from either style.  The valves are the easiest way to go.  I don't believe the ethanol mix affects the valves (but everything else in the fuel delivery system is) but the missing lead doesn't help the valve seating wear.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

Here's an overview on the hardend valve seats:

In the late 1970's the old Phillips Petroleum operation (Phillips 66 gasoline) did tests on engines to find out what impact would be now that lead was banned by the EPA as an additive.  Their engineers and test people noted that tetraethyl lead attached to the valves and valve stems during combustion.  the rubbing motion would "knock off" traces of the material and restore new amounts of the material.  This activity helped protect the valves from excessive wear and the seats from receeding into the block or cylinder head (flathead motor or overhead valve motor).  Hardened valves and valve seats (induction hardened items) could withstand the impact of the new fuels.  This spawned the gasoline additives with a synthetic substitute, the best appeared to be produced by Lubrizoil and was called PowerShield.  Variations came out from other companies but as the 70's turned into the 80's, PowerShield was still considered the best. 

Ford Motor Company began using hardened components in the late 1920's; according to shop manual information, Willys Motors started using hardened valves and valve seats during the 1959 model year; K-F never used them. 

As far as I am aware the first Kaiser-Frazer product to get hardened components as part of the engine rebuild process was my 1951 Kaiser Special Business Coupe; Dale Hammon wanted to try them and see what happened.  The NAPA jobber in Dixon IL did the machining on my block and added the parts.   The car was driven a lot between 1983 and 1999 including some long distance trips and there was never any problem with the engine that would relate to the recession issue other cars ran into without hardened valves and valve seats.  That's why I recommend hardened parts.  I am no mechanic but I do know the parts seem to work as intended.

[Dan 48 kaiser special]

Thanks everyone.  Some great information.  I tore the engine down.  It does not have hardened valve seats.  I'm going to have them installed.  I towed a camper across the US with this car. It had valve recession. Now planning a trip to Maine, so I think hardened valve seats are a good idea.  Now I have another question; exhaust valve rotators?  They are available for this engine.  I have never heard anything about them at any of the meets.  Any other suggestions for putting this engine together, will be appreciated. 
Thanks,  Dan

[joefrazer]

Exhaust valve rotators were used in the 54-55 engines. I know of people who've used them in earlier engines as well to help combat the problem of burned valves.