Author Topic: use of non-leaded fuel  (Read 1033 times)

retroguy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
  • '54 Kaiser Manhattan 003764 K542
    • View Profile
    • Email
use of non-leaded fuel
« on: June 14, 2020, 03:21:48 PM »
Is use of non-leaded fuel ok or are lead additives recommended for -54 KM

Thomasso

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
    • MSN Messenger - walund41@gmail.com
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: use of non-leaded fuel
« Reply #1 on: June 14, 2020, 08:06:22 PM »
Actually lead additive should be used in any old engine with non hardened valve seats.  Non leaded is ok for light duty.  Be sure to use oil with zinc or a zink additive in any flat tappet engine.
- 55 Willys Bermuda - 57 Ford E-CODE Sunliner - 63 Riveria - 97 Chev K10 - 99 Ford Lightening - 04 jag VDP - 1998 Jag XK8. 07 Lincoln - 08 Taurus X. All old like me.

retroguy

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 119
  • '54 Kaiser Manhattan 003764 K542
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: use of non-leaded fuel
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2020, 06:51:26 AM »
thank you.  That's kind of what I thought

kaiserfrazerlibrary

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3005
  • KFOCI Historian
    • AOL Instant Messenger - none
    • Yahoo Instant Messenger - none
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: use of non-leaded fuel
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2020, 10:07:02 AM »
When Phillips Petroleum (the old Phillips 66 gasoline) did their engine tests back when unleaded gas was about to be the "gas of the land" they found that severe valve seat recession occured with engines running over 3,600 RPM unless hardened valve seats and valves were installed.  The top RPM for the 226 is around 3,500 rpm and normally cruises around 2,000 to 2,500.  The bigger problem is that the use of 10% alcohol in gas has a corrosive effect on the rubber fuel system components (including the flexible gas line going into the fuel pump) and the rubber and cork components in carburetors, fuel tank floats, etc.  Fuel pumps need to be rebuilt with the proper grade neopreme parts...the old NOS kits won't work.   Also the lower evaporation point of today's gasolines make all old cars prone to vapor lock.  You may have to install a 6-volt electric pump (at around 5-8 lbs pressure) to keep the gas feeding through on the 226. 

NAPA jobbers with engine services (reboring, etc) and good engine shops can get the hardened valve seats and valves (as well as do the work to install them).  Dale Hammon & I (along with others such as Bob Fox who was at the Dixon IL NAPA shop ) got involved in this during the 1980's.  My 1951 Kaiser Special Business coupe and 1952 Kaiser deLuxe (later series) 4-door (which is now in in New Zealand) were among the first to get the modification; it worked find in both cars.

As for oil, a survey of ZDDP (the zinc additive for gasoline) levels in production motor oils shows that the current mainline types used in 2000-2021 engines (SN and SN Plus API Grades marked on the oil bottles and containers) do not have enough zinc to keep camshafts and bearings properly lubricated.  Valvoline VR1 is available at auto parts stores and Hemmings Motor Oil has (mail order only from the magazine publisher) have over 1,400 PPM of zinc,  with 1200-1400 considered optimum for proper lubrication on pre-1967 engines.  According to the FINA chart (on line from FINA, a European oil company) for oil usage, no SN or SN+ grade oil should not be used in engines 1967 and older.  This reflects the differences in metalurgy (metals and alloys used in engine block/head construction and engine part construction) back then vs. recent/current and the formiulation of motor oil to keep up with enviornmental suggestions and changes in tolerances plus engine speeds.   This was backed up by Lubrication Specialists working at Ford Motor Company during the time I spent at Ford's Cleveland Engine Plant #2 (a casulaty of plant down sizing during 2009-2014). 


konrad

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 385
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: use of non-leaded fuel
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2020, 10:23:18 AM »
There is another fuel option as well.  Most regional airports will have 100 Octane LL (Low Lead) AVgas available and will allow you to fill your car with it.  The downside is that it is more expensive than the non-ethanol gas some stations have.  The upside is that it is far closer to what you would have been putting in your car normally in '54.
51 Kaiser Deluxe

DH Comet

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 75
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: use of non-leaded fuel
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2020, 08:53:32 PM »
I'm not sue about Avgas:  among other issues such as a too-high lead count, From The Fuel Expert website:
"...There is a legal grey area that has some vendors willing to dispense AvGas into "approved" containers if they believe the end use of that AvGas is fueling an aircraft engine. This loop-hole is how some may obtain AvGas for automotive use. Because AvGas has no taxes and duties on it, use on public roads is illegal and if found could result in your vehicle being impounded."
DH Comet
'53 Manhattan

konrad

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 385
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: use of non-leaded fuel
« Reply #6 on: June 15, 2020, 09:59:48 PM »
I'm not sue about Avgas:  among other issues such as a too-high lead count, From The Fuel Expert website:
"...There is a legal grey area that has some vendors willing to dispense AvGas into "approved" containers if they believe the end use of that AvGas is fueling an aircraft engine. This loop-hole is how some may obtain AvGas for automotive use. Because AvGas has no taxes and duties on it, use on public roads is illegal and if found could result in your vehicle being impounded."

Hmmm...well, when I first heard about the possibility of LL AvGas, I called my local, regional airport, explained that I had an early 50's car and asked about the possibility of bringing it in for a fill up...they said, basically, "Sure...drive it on in."
51 Kaiser Deluxe