Sizes of Starters

[wilhelm]

Occasionally, my 1952 Manhattan makes a slight buzzing or clicking sound.  A guy with a good background in Kaisers said it's because this car has the wrong length of starter.  Is that possible?  Any help would be appreciated.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

A starting point is to check the manufacturer's plate on the starter motor with the brand and model number of the starter that you should have.  In your case, you should have a Delco-Remy brand starter, model (or part) #1107787 if manual or overdrive equipped, #1107788 if equipped with Hydra-Matic.  1953-55 Kaisers used #'s 1107125 with manual transmission and 1107126 for automatic.  These have different  rear engagement assemblies.  The 1952 type is a barrel layout, the 1953 and later has the "Follo-Thru" layout.  There is no indication in my factory service materials that the two types are interchangagle, although they may attach ok to the unit.  The manufacturer tag and the shape (as noted in K-F Shop Manuals, especially the 1952-53 supplement to the 1951 Edition) of the rear unit as a starting point.  Otherwise, you'll probably have to remove the starter motor and look inside.

[wilhelm]

Thank you for your answer!

I'm still trying to get to the bottom of this starter situation.  I checked the tags, as suggested.  I have both a 1951 Kaiser Deluxe and the 1952 Kaiser Manhattan I referred to previously.  In checking the starter tags, they are both Delco-Remy and both have the same number - 1107087 - has anyone heard of that number?  Is it supposed to be in Kaisers like mine?

Can anyone shed some light on this?  Thank you!

[G.B. (All Vinyl Dragon)]

Could You Send Picture of Both ? Automatic Yes Or No . Which Kaiser 51 Deluxe, 52 Manhattan. Do they Work ?
Remember This is a 6 Volt Positive Ground. Ground should be  Flat Braden  approx 1 inch wide Wire.

[joefrazer]

If the car has a manual transmission then you have the correct starter. I suggest that you have the starter cleaned and the brushes checked to ensure they're making good contact. Dirty connections at the solenoid and at the starter can cause issues like those you're experiencing.

[rrdcorvair]

Kaiserlibrary added a "7" to the first set of numbers he gave you.  The serial numbers should read 1107087 & 1107088. #7087 is the starter for std transmissions and #7088 is for the automatic transmissions.  The pinion housing for the std starter is 3 25/64" and the housing for the automatic starter is 3 21/32" long so the automatic starter is longer than the standard transmission starter.  The pinion is the part of the starter that is inserted into the bell housing.  According to my parts book records everything remains the same KF part numbers in the later starters (#1107125 Std trans) and (#1107126 auto trans) except the Bendix part - that is the part that spins out to engage the flywheel.  The early style retracts when the ignition key is released and the later style Bendix is designed to stay engaged in the flywheel until the engine is turning at a preset rpm.   The previous description of the starter Bendix is correct.  You can convert the early starter type to the latter style by simply changing out the Bendix.  The folo-thru style is the better design.  If you have the correct starters on your cars, then what you describe could be being caused by - whirring might mean the Bendix isn't being thrown or spun out to engage the flywheel.  This could be lack of the starter spinning high enough to throw it out (low voltage/weak battery) or an internal spring being broken in the Bendix.  Clicking would probably most likely be bad contact from the battery or bad ground or weak battery.  Hope this helps.

[wilhelm]

I sincerely appreciate the help from all of you.

I'm a little late getting back here.  I had a little surgical procedure done last week.  Nothing big, just wish someone would have told me to wear something better than a baseball cap with nothing covering my ears when I was a little boy driving those tractors with no umbrella or no cab.

Here are a few on the answers to questions regarding my '52 Manhattan.  I am working on cleaning up every connection I can find.  This starter was rebuilt just a year ago.
1. Attached are photos of the starter.
2. It's a stick shift.
3. Yes, both of my Kaisers run.
4. The ground cable is a flat braden, nearly an inch wide.

Other thoughts, at this point?  I will be back as I work on this further.  Thank you!

[wilhelm]

As a review, I had started this forum because of a noise problem with my '52 Manhattan.  For various reasons, I believe the problem is in the starter, but needed help on this forum to be sure we know the cause.

If you will go to the following link on youtube, we have posted a video to show you the car and the sound it makes upon start-up.  This is the loudest I've ever heard it.  It seems to be loudest if the car has not been started every 2-3 days and then trails off after about a minute.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ccazYo6_5Wo

I'd appreciate any thoughts ...

[rrdcorvair]

That's the bendix not pulling back all the way from the flywheel.  Several reasons for this - dirt on the bendix shaft preventing the 'barrel' from retracting, or more likely, the spring inside the bendix that should cause the barrel to move back out of the flywheel as the barrel reaches a certain rpm.  To go back to the subject of the 'folo-thru' style.  As I understand it, looking through parts books, the changes between the starters, #1107087 and #1107088 to the #1107125 and #1107126 are the part number for the actual starter bendix.  Don't confuse this with the starters themselves as there is a difference between the 1087/7125 and the 1088/7126 in the pinion housing because of the transmissions.  I have several starters on my shelf for spares and as I have had them rebuilt I have converted ALL the old style (1087/1088) to the 'folo-thru' bendix, KFpart number #213622 and they work fine in their intended transmission bell housings. I wouldn't continue to start that car until you fix the starter problem as that noise is the bendix chewing on the flywheel teeth.

[wilhelm]

It's been a long time since I reported what we have done to fix the problem with the starter.  I took it to Gen-Star in Glendale AZ.  They always seem to do a good job.  He went thru it & cleaned it up.  I put it back in the Manhattan and now it's running like a top, no chatter.  I think the car even looks pleased.  Thanks to all of you for the education on starters!