Radials on original rims?

[Lisa P]

Sorry for bringing this up as I know it has been discussed in the past, but we need to get some replacement tires for the '48 as the bias plys that are on it have been there since 1967 (still holding air)!  I have read on here that radials stress the rims and it is recommended to purchase bias plys.  This being said, would the '48 Kaiser Special have come with black or white walls?  Anyone know of an inexpensive brand?  The car also had a tire tube in the trunk, would this have come with the car?  Thanks for the help, we hope to see some of you in Plainfield!

[joefrazer]

KF rims on the earlier cars were not of the sealed type so tubes were used. KF continued to use tubes in their tires because tubless tires were a new innovation and more expensive. By 1948, the rims KF used would seal and hold a tubless tire. My 48K had tubeless radials on it and drove just fine...but slow speed steering, like when parking, was much more difficult as there is more tire on the road than with a bias ply tire, thereby making turning the wheel harder.
If you plan to drive your car alot, then consider a more modern tire. If you plan just the occasional drive, put the original type tires back on it. KF used Goodyear tires and on the 48, they'd have been a 7.10x15 (some had 6.50x15). Whitewalls were an option and were common.
In today's world, any brand tire as long as it is of correct size, is accepted in KF judging (Goodyear, Firestone, Goodrich, etc). Radials are not accepted as correct in KF judging but if you're not a purist and want a modern tire, then got for it.
As for stresses that a radial tire place on a rim, there's been alot of debate about the truth behind it. I remain solidly neutral on that topic!

[Gordie]

If you choose bias ply white walls be sure and specify 4 1/4 inch sidewalls as that is the only size that is correct up until 1954.  They are available at all of the collector tire stores.

[Jim B PEI]

AS far as radials stressing rims, I would think that the more power you have on tap, and the more you use it, the worse it can be. So, if I had a 54-55 Manhattan, as opposed to the 100 hp 49, I'd definitely get new rims. (the 49 still has bias, but that will change) I'll likely get new rims anyway, just because they are 60 years old, even if they are not rusty and are in good shape.

Now, my Studebakers ALL get new Ford rims and radials, as even the automatic 57 Champion sedan with the 101 hp 185 flathead, likes to go, and is capable at,  faster speeds than the 49 Kaiser Special. The K is a 50 mph car--the Studebaker is a 65 mph car, and my V8 Studebakers are faster still.

[Lisa P]

Thanks for the replies everyone!  While I would love to get a set of beautiful new white walls, I believe we may have to wait another year to make that purchase-then it will be like the icing on the cake.  Until the new bias plys are bought, be they white or black walls, I should be safe with radials as long as I don't put that stroker kit and blower on it right?  Ha!  Just kidding, we do want to make it as close to original as possible.  Thanks again guys 

[Barnum]

Lisa...had the same choice on my 54...had bias WW on it when I got it....I went the standard radial route on original rims and am very pleased ,huge improvement in the ride and I drove it quite a bit over the summer. Keep us posted on you car ...

[Kenn Evans II]

If you're concerned about going tubeless with radials purchase radial tubes for your new tires.  I have radials on my 52 Manhattan and I cleaned and repainted the inside with an epoxy paint and don't have any problems.

[Logan]

I use bias-ply on my 53 dragon, and I drive it almost daily.  True, ruts in the road try to pull the wheel away, but I don't mind.  I always used bias ply on my 66 Pontiac in high school (80s-90s) just because that's what was on it when I bought the car, and I didn't have money to get new tires.  I eventually had to get a couple of them retreaded.  So, bias ply don't bother me, but I do understand that radials handle better.  As for the 50-mph Kaiser, is that without overdrive then?  I never hesitate to take my Dragon 70, and I've had it up to about 88 mph by the speedometer, although I'm sure it reads a bit fast.  Still haven't taken it all out, but I read in one of the old Quarterlies from the early 60s where they were asking members to put their cars through trials, including top speed.  Wouldn't that be fun? 

[Jim B PEI]

Logan, when I say its a 50 mph car, its just that the earlier body seems and likely is a bit heavier than the 51-55. Its a Special, so no overdrive.

Besides, I had (to have) the engine completely rebuilt just after I bought it, and I have always heard that excess heat and revs were the death of these engines, so I'm not chancing it.

This is a true story.....The previous owner drove a nice rust free Saskatchewan-new car back across the bald flat Canadian Prairies without a working speedo--more than likely way over 70 MPH at times--which is why I believe that the engine was so shot when I picked it up and drove it home, all of 530 km (330 miles) on the cusp of winter from Cape Breton to Prince Edward Island. I had driven over the previous week to fully inspect the car for roadworthiness, and everything seemed just fine, no oil smoke or leaks, great pressure, except the compression seemed somewhat low, but evenly low if you get my meaning.

It was a tremendous bonding experience with 'The Green Goddess'. A sudden Atlantic Nor'Easter blew in (think of cold almost-hurricanes for northern folk) after changing direction abruptly out in the Atlantic and it went from pleasant above freezing to ***heavy**** snowfall and winds at a steady 85-95 KPH (50-55 MPH), shortly after I left Sydney, Nova Scotia. There had been no sign of it or reports of impending weather disaster before I got on the bus early that morning for the 7 hour bus trip over to Sydney  I was suddenly battling unplowed roads through steep hills on the TransCanada in the hills of Cape Breton, on a car with vacuum wipers. You know the drill for monsoons or snowstorms with vacuum wipers going uphill--full acceleration-back off so the wipers fly-full acceleration for another ten seconds, back-off for 5 seconds so the wipers fly and clears everything off-repeat for 5 hours straight. By the time I got down the highway and through the up and down hills of eastern Nova Scotia, and was climbing through the peak of the Coboquid Pass heading for New Brunswick--there was a full foot to 18 inches of virgin powder on the highways, before drifts. Fortunately, by THAT time the wind had faded to whisper. The Kaiser was >>VERY<< capable through that incredible mess, even the heater worked well. The only drawback was that the car was losing almost a quart of oil per hour, almost entirely through the exhaust (unburnt, no real smoke) The compression was getting so low that I feared if I stopped overnight that I would never get it started again if the engine wasn't warm. I was right, it didn't, and had to be towed next morning INTO the garage down the street where I left it when I got home.

With constant stops every half hour to recheck everything, that trip (ordeal by frost instead of fire) took me 11 hours. I didn't despise the Kaiser at all when I got home--it was a comfortable ride of course--and only regretted I didn't have a radio in the car. And yes, the bias ply tires dug through all that quite nicely. Its on dry flat pavement that you notice their limitations, when compared to radials.

[Terry T]

If you Google radial tubes, etc., you will find a controversary regarding the subject.

Black Diamond Tires is totally against tubes in tubeless tires.  They contend there is heat buildup inside.

I have just ordered Black Diamond radials for my '51 HJ so that my upcoming ride on Rte. 66 will be less harsh.  I want to be able to walk, not hobble,  around the Convention in San Diego!!

[Jim B PEI]

About that controversy, there is controversy. Back in the day, some (foreign) makes required tubes with their radials. The kicker is that construction/shape/aspect ratios have changed for radial tires too, and they have gotten much wider and shorter. As well, the ones that required tubes had rims that were designed for radials with tubes. One of the things with wider/shorter is increased possibility of excess heat due to higher speeds--because with wider/shorter you CAN do higher speeds. 

It is just like the initial problem with putting radials on 'designed for bias' rims--because you can go faster, and corner harder, people do go faster and harder and overstress the rims; whereas if you drove on radials like people did on skinny bias, (ramps at 25 mph or lower, because they shrieked at you at any faster speed) you likely would not have any problems.

[Logan]

Jim B, that is a great story!  Glad you made it all right through the snow storm.  As for going fast, I have to admit that I do plan on doing a restoration some time (as yet undetermined  ) in the future, and I will rebuild the engine then.  So I'm definitely not babying it.  I understand that with the heavier body, less horsepower and no overdrive you would not be doing speed trials.

[Jim B PEI]

Logan--it was all too true! All my cars are meant to be driven and used and never Trailer Queens, but in this case I was unsure if this was such a good idea. It is good to know that the old iron WILL get you through if needs be. On the Studebaker Forum, my sig picture shows my 63 Wagonaire in the act of towing my Jeep Wagoneer off for some (perpetually) needed tinkering. One of my Border Collie dogs, Pande (short for pandemonium) is all put out as she normally gets to shed all over the interior of anything going.

Well, it is currently -22C and sunny here, with a wind chill of -36C. For the metrically challenged, -17C is 0F, and the two systems meet at -40, C=F.

Nothing is moving today, including me. Oddly, both the solar panels are working to keep the house warm (Cansolair) and the water hot (Nova Scotia Solar Boiler) without the pesky use of heating oil or electricity. Wish something like that could be designed for cars!

Jim B PEI