Author Topic: Tire wheel combo  (Read 3522 times)

fathersondream

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Tire wheel combo
« on: April 11, 2011, 08:15:42 PM »
Anyone know which aftermarket tire wheel combo works best on a 49 kaiser deluxe?15" wheel 5 x 4.5 pattern??__(265/70/15)example
Have original hubcaps and trim rings that look great.Just may want to change from custom to factory at times.Thanx

Fid

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Re: Tire wheel combo
« Reply #1 on: April 11, 2011, 08:44:43 PM »
I had G78 / 15s on my '48 Frazer for a long time. They seemed to work well.
1953 Henry J Corsair Deluxe
Edgar Kaiser's custom 1951 Henry J
1951 Kaiser Special
1952 Allstate Deluxe

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fathersondream

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Re: Tire wheel combo
« Reply #2 on: April 11, 2011, 08:51:18 PM »
What is a g78?sorry

Jim B PEI

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Re: Tire wheel combo
« Reply #3 on: April 12, 2011, 06:31:03 AM »
G78 bias is what I have on my 49 Kaiser Special (no overdrive). It is an older non-radial style measurement, after the original factory OEM system, but before radials. Kaisers had, depending on the year and model, had from a mid 6 to low 7 measurement on OEM tires, ie 6.40 or 6.70 through to 7.30 or so. My take on it is that 265/70 is way too wide (and short) for a Kaiser and you will run into other problems with other components of your steering and suspension.

Read this chart carefully as a starting point to understand what is involved:   http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/chevylist/tech/tire_size_conversion.htm
For Kaisers and Frazers, there isn't an easy, cheap off the rack "modern" rim and tire combo. What you should be using in a radial is perhaps a 215/75/R15, or maybe as second best 205/75/R15. You want tall and narrow. You have King pins; don't start looking at 60 or 65 tires, and even 70s are not as good as 75s. Do NOT put wide tires on your car

Certain older Ford rims might work, but I can't remember the details. Light trucks? What does work, ISTR, is a Chrysler product rim from the 70-80s. These were the last of the slightly stubby boxy full size sedans with V8 or slant 6, front engine with REAR WHEEL DRIVE, that were used everywhere as taxis and police cars etc. Dodge Diplomat? Plymouth ? Chrysler LeBaron? They had the 4 sealed beam rectangular headlights I think. Adam-12 the police show used them. junkyards are your best bet. ISTR that the problem with some other rims that appear to fit is that the center hole is slightly too large, and therefore the rim isn't supported except by the lug nuts and bolts, which isn't a good idea. This is if you really want to drive on radials.

I keep my Kaiser on bias tires for several reasons.
-suspension (toe in, camber, etc) is set up for bias, and would have to be changed to something suitable for radials. Subtle, but quite different, for both handling and tire life. This is important!
-bias give a nice soft billowy ride, radials are 'firmer'
-the 226 flathead is no speed demon even after a full rebuild, and it is happiest at 50 or so. Even with overdrive, you would be well advised to not drive an earlier Kaiser/Frazer car continuously above 60 ever. EVER!
-radials on the original rims are not that good an idea. They will make your car handle better around curves, and you might be tempted to drive faster than you should on thinner (rusted a bit over the years? damaged and stressed at some time in the past?) 60 year old rims. Plus, they generally use a higher pressure than bias.
-glass belted bias tires can last years and years if you don't drive much, and protect them from sun and weather. Radials on the other hand, do NOT last, and should be discarded no matter how nice they look--if they have steel belts-- by 7 years after the date of construction. Do some research on this issue, and check your daily drivers!! Also, demand the date code before any radial is put on any car. Moisture over time will migrate through tires, and steel belted radials degrade internally via rusting/corrosion with no external signs.

That being said, I also have a flock of Studebakers, three 57s, and a 63 and 64. 3 sixes and 2 V8s. I run all the road licenced ones -three at present--on brand new Ford rims (there happens to be a perfect interchange on an older pre-93 rim, as long as you use the Ford lug nuts instead of the Studebaker lug nuts) with radials, with updated alignment camber and toe in. I have 8 new never used old rims still in reserve for future upgrades. These cars all came with bias tires, but I tend to drive my Studebakers, even the sixes, a bit faster and harder than my Kaiser, which is after all, still a 40s design. I still use as tall and narrow a radial as possible, which is generally a 205/75/R15 unless I can find a 215/75/R15.

YMMV, of course.
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 06:39:11 AM by Jim B PEI »
KF
49 Kaiser Special Glass Green, Saskatchewan new
Studebaker
64 2dr 170-6 auto Astra White Commander Special
63 4dr Wagonaire 259V8 o/d Blue
57 4dr 185-6 auto Glendale Green/Turquoise
57 4dr 185-6 o/d Glendale Green/Turquoise W6 clone
lawn art
57 Stude 259V8 auto. 56 Panhard

joefrazer

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Re: Tire wheel combo
« Reply #4 on: April 12, 2011, 03:14:18 PM »
I used to be a firm believer in using bias ply tires on my Kaisers...and still am...except that any 6.70 or 7.10 tire is now nearly $200 apiece. Outfitting a car will set one back a thousand dollars...more than I can stomach. So, 205 75R15 tires...here I come.

Jim B PEI

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Re: Tire wheel combo
« Reply #5 on: April 12, 2011, 05:45:19 PM »
I have a nice shot of an OEM 6.70, a 215/75, a 205/75, and a 195/75 (all 15s, of course) side by side, mounted on rims and inflated. The only one that is close, and it is shorter!, to the 6.70 is the 215/75/R15. I don't have the facility to post to this Forum, but if you want to see it or could post it for me, send me a private message or post here.

I can send it as a Windows bitmap 700 kb, TIFF 936 kb, .jpeg 2000    60 kb, or .jpeg    80 kb
« Last Edit: April 12, 2011, 05:49:35 PM by Jim B PEI »
KF
49 Kaiser Special Glass Green, Saskatchewan new
Studebaker
64 2dr 170-6 auto Astra White Commander Special
63 4dr Wagonaire 259V8 o/d Blue
57 4dr 185-6 auto Glendale Green/Turquoise
57 4dr 185-6 o/d Glendale Green/Turquoise W6 clone
lawn art
57 Stude 259V8 auto. 56 Panhard

Cortes121

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Re: Tire wheel combo
« Reply #6 on: April 14, 2011, 10:16:07 AM »
Here is the picture Jim is referring to :

- Anthony

1951 Kaiser Deluxe
1955 Packard Clipper Custom

Jim B PEI

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Re: Tire wheel combo
« Reply #7 on: April 14, 2011, 03:47:44 PM »
Thank you for posting that for me! With a shorter tire, you will be running more revs than OEM tires. I find too with radials, you just tend to want to drive even faster than you would on bias so those poor Continental engines get a harder workout as a double whammy.
KF
49 Kaiser Special Glass Green, Saskatchewan new
Studebaker
64 2dr 170-6 auto Astra White Commander Special
63 4dr Wagonaire 259V8 o/d Blue
57 4dr 185-6 auto Glendale Green/Turquoise
57 4dr 185-6 o/d Glendale Green/Turquoise W6 clone
lawn art
57 Stude 259V8 auto. 56 Panhard

Cortes121

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Re: Tire wheel combo
« Reply #8 on: April 14, 2011, 03:55:59 PM »
So you would recommend the 215/75's then? I think I need to check my tires tonight, if smaller tires due cause these engines to rev more, I think i may know why my engine races so much and should look into replacing them..
- Anthony

1951 Kaiser Deluxe
1955 Packard Clipper Custom

fathersondream

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Re: Tire wheel combo
« Reply #9 on: April 15, 2011, 07:05:33 PM »
Thanks for all the great information!

84RabbitGTI

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Re: Tire wheel combo
« Reply #10 on: April 15, 2011, 08:43:30 PM »
I'm using 205/75 15 ww radials with satisfactory results. They are Cookers and I don't know if this is typical with all white wall tires, but the black part of the side walls will turn gray over a short period of time if I don't keep them wiped down.  I think the rubber oxidizes? 
L Mommsen
Marysville, WA
1951 Kaiser Deluxe 4 Dr
Member #6356 Since 1988

Fid

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Re: Tire wheel combo
« Reply #11 on: April 15, 2011, 09:32:54 PM »
Coker claims to offer "white walls" but most customers, including me, will tell you that Coker really offers "yellow walls."
1953 Henry J Corsair Deluxe
Edgar Kaiser's custom 1951 Henry J
1951 Kaiser Special
1952 Allstate Deluxe

Need your classic car radio repaired? I repair vacuum tube radios

84RabbitGTI

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Re: Tire wheel combo
« Reply #12 on: April 15, 2011, 11:05:51 PM »
The white on mine isn't a problem, just don't use any of the Armor-all type shiner stuff on the white part. It works great on the black part of the tire, but it can easily yellow the whitewalls, in my experience. Just soap, water, a semi-soft brush and some Westley's Tire Bleach or what ever it's called is all I use and it works great.  I NEVER drive my car in the rain (which here in Western Washington has meant that it has stayed in the Garage now for about a month).  Maybe that is why the stay clean.
L Mommsen
Marysville, WA
1951 Kaiser Deluxe 4 Dr
Member #6356 Since 1988

Jim B PEI

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Re: Tire wheel combo
« Reply #13 on: April 17, 2011, 02:46:41 PM »
Just to remind everyone about the above picture. At the left is an OEM 6.70 bias on its original rim (it was an unused spare), to the right is a 215/75/R15--which is the only tire that comes close to matching even that size of OEM tire, let alone a 7.00 or 7.30, then a 205/75/R15, and finally a 195/75/R15. The difference gets to quite a bit, because it is not just the height/diameter, but 'rolling footprint' of the distance travelled per revolution. Shorten the tire, increase the RPMs. Remember that the Continental is NOT an engine that holds up to driving at higher revs than it was designed for. They lasted almost forever under load with a governed maximum RPM as stationary generators and pumps. Most of the time, these engines would be chugging along at well under 3,000 RPM. It was NOT a great choice for an engine in a car, especially in cars that didn't have tachometers, engine speed warning buzzers (my 73 Mazda rotary had that!) or even the simple shift point maximum speeds indicated on the speedometers, such as were on 50s-60s Mercedes.

In the 40s, roads were two lane, and still often gravel, and people didn't drive far or fast. I learned to drive on an English car, a Vauxhall Victor Super, which had a "comfortable" highway cruising speed of 45 mph, although 50 wasn't too much busier; it just felt better at 45. At 55, it felt really wound up and it had harmonic buzzing. 60 was possible, but you knew that you were going much much faster than you should. 65 was for racing crazily to a hospital. At the time, and on the roads that were available where I grew up, (no 4 lanes) this was still "acceptable" performance. Driving my 49 Kaiser Special now reminds me of driving then, although I am much more Kaiser-sized than Vauxhall-sized.
KF
49 Kaiser Special Glass Green, Saskatchewan new
Studebaker
64 2dr 170-6 auto Astra White Commander Special
63 4dr Wagonaire 259V8 o/d Blue
57 4dr 185-6 auto Glendale Green/Turquoise
57 4dr 185-6 o/d Glendale Green/Turquoise W6 clone
lawn art
57 Stude 259V8 auto. 56 Panhard