Dragon Inquiry

[Roadmaster49]

http://evansville.craigslist.org/cto/2511435973.html

999/888  ?   How does anyone know if a 53 Kaiser is a Dragon?

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

First off, the car in the Craigs List ad is a specially built Dragon, one of several produced during the 1953 model year mostly for the auto show circuit.  Jerry Johnson in Illinois is one of a few people that has one still in original condition.

Otherwise, the door post serial number tag has a prefix of K530 followed by a number in the range between 001001 and 002276.  Most Dragons also have a smaller body serial number tag on the firewall that also starts with a K530 prefix; some do say K532 or K531 for the prefix.  Dragons also have "00" under the larger tag heading marked AG, and will have K530 in the MODEL area of the tag.

Check the KFOCI HANDBOOK Version 4.0 for more information on Dragons, including the "Chicago Six-Pack" which were the original show cars.

[Roadmaster49]

It appears this 999/888 Dragon then is the one owned by the club member you mention? 

Again, it bothers me that this car is minimally presented on Craigs List but not offered to club members. At least I have not seen it in the Bulletin Buy/Sell section. 

It also is advertised for sale without a price, another pet peeve.

[Bulletin Editor]

The owner was asked to submit an ad to run in the MONTHLY BULLETIN two years ago, but nothing ever came in. 

[Roadmaster49]

Thanks Jack, or Barbara.   I'm going after it but the seller sounds a little hard to work with.  Kind of like my 49 Virginian. The fellow emails but doesn't answer his phone and is hard to reach. 

[Roadmaster49]

I was reading extensively last night in the Langworth book.  53 Dragons were mostly K530 and had gold anodized hardware, a vinyl top and special interiors among other items (nothing new to most of you I am sure).

So, I am still puzzled by the 999/888.  Jack, you believe this car in southern Illinois is one of 6 Dragons used for the show car circuit?   I am trying to follow how it got a 999/888 tag and exactly where and what 999/888 means.  That is why I posted the Darrin ebay auction is because it has 999/888 and Fid said that means 999 = special exterior color and 888 = special interio color.

So, this was a 53 trimmed Manhattan that was pulled off the line and received special paint (999) BUT all Dragons received special interiors so why the 888?  Wouldn't it being Dragon be enough for special 888 level interior trim?  Or was this a show car with special interior for show ?  Or a customer that, despite it being a Dragon, wanted leather or something? 

I wish this fellow with this car for sale would email me additional photos. 

[Roadmaster49]

Jack

I will check the handbook next. I know I should have done that before posting additional questions but I am not entirely sure where to go. I'll look for it.

[Roadmaster49]

The seller emailed me a full photo set, a phone number and confirmed price is $3,000 firm. 

The car wears a light blue paint job as seen in the Craigs List photos and appears to have had a white or off white fabric roof. Unlike the Houston TX Dragon that is for sale, the Illinois 999/888 car has badging and emblems correct for Dragons. 

Now, the interior is clearly dark brown saddle pleated leather.  Could this be original?  I do not have a handbook yet although I hope to get one soon, but I would guess the 6 999/888 Dragons were specified down to a "T" for the auto show circuit. If this is the original interior and paint, then this seems to be an "odd" set up as the interior does not harmonize with the exterior. The exterior is bright and outgoing whereas dark brown saddle leather is associated with darker toned exteriors.  Like dark green or bronze.  Not light blue and white.  I am still going through the photos.  He sent about 25. 

[joefrazer]

My guess is that the interior is original. The show cars used materials that the production stuff didn't get...at least right away. I've only seen very small pix of the car and would be interested in larger versions just to see what this thing looks like. $3K is strong money for an unrestored Dragon...I know two guys who have 10 times that (literally) in restoring theirs!

If the car runs and at least lot drives, that's a big plus.

999/888 means that it wears a factory special coat of paint and a factory special interior. Either could be about anything, depending upon what the customer ordered or what the show folks wanted the public to see. My uncle had a 999/888 54K that was black metallic on the outside with a grey leather interior, grey dash and steering wheel. It was a visually stunning car that needed alot of help, especially after my cousins got done hitting it with a ball peen hammer...

[Logan]

Yes, the brown vinyl interior is correct for the show car Dragons.  The roof should be blue fabric, and is probably faded.  I think they are beautiful, and it would be great if this one got restored.  It would also be expensive to do it.

[Roadmaster49]

JoeFrazer, 3K is a lot more then I pay for cars I agree but this is a rare one. As a 53 999/888 car it could be 1 of 6 and we don't know how many other of the 6 survived.  I suspect this is not a show circuit Dragon because of the odd choices in interior v exterior, but as you mention, maybe?

Logan.  I believe the interior is brown leather not vinyl - on the seats at least. The dash is odd. It's body color on metal with pleated brown vinyl. 

My email is  abc.moran@netzero.net    Anyone wanting the photo set from this somewhat hard to contact seller just email me and I will forward it.   I'm going after it but need to get some of my recent purchases here including the Virginian. But should be no later then spring 2012. If it's sold, it's sold, lots of KF cars out there.

[Roadmaster49]

I take it back. This is clearly one of the "about a dozen" show circuit Dragon made.

Where is the date of manufacture on data plates.  This one has these numbers on it:

530     1   999     888          1         7

                           D-1442     81      347

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

Here is what I know of the show dragons

1 - Purchased by Brooks Stevens for his wife Alice; gone to ground
1 - Factory car purchased by Milwaukee WI dealer Bob Smith for his Aunt; gone to ground c.1959
1 - Owned by George Buchinger; now owned by Jerry Johnson (?)
1 - Owned by Jerry Johnson (I think; it is not the ex-Buchinger car)
1 - Went to Hawaii for pool car use by Henry J Kaiser Company (at one point assigned to Allie Kaiser) - fate unknown
1 - Kept by company at Willow Run and migrated to Toledo.  My father owned this car at the time of his death but was beyond restoration.  Car parted out but I kept the tag.  Door post serial number X-6.

George Buchinger told me once that 3 of the cars were sold off the floor of the Chicago Auto Show in 1953; this could be the Stevens, Buchinger and Johnson vehicles (If Jerry had a second car).


There were additional cars built to special order during the 1953 model year.  Number of additional cars not known and I am not sure if these cars followed the "X" series serial numbers of the original 6.

[Roadmaster49]

I received a full photo set of this car but have been preoccupied with getting several other cars delivered before pursuing another KF.   I emailed him about 3 weeks ago without a response.  Did anyone in the KF community purchase this car or has anyone else been in contact with this seller since about the time of the posting?