Compression, head gaskets, etc.?

[mbflemingkf]

Well, as I was about to start my project of replacing the head gasket in my 54 Manhattan, a buddy suggested I check the compression before pulling the head.  Having not done this before, I borrowed a compression tester and here's what I got:

#1-95
#2-100
#3-60
#4-65
#5-90
#6-95

I believe the head gasket is blown due to some other symptoms.  So what do you guys think?  Should I go ahead with the head gasket replacement?  What role do the valves have in this? Are they completely accessible from the side or is there something I need to do or check with them when I have the head off?

 

Thanks, Mike

[Fid]

It looks like you're going to have to pull the head Mike. When you do, closely inspect #3 and #4 exhaust valves and seats. The 226 is notorious for burning those valves as the two exhaust valves are side by side with no water jacket between them. I've seen it numerous times. You may need to take a dentist type mirror and carefully inspect the surface of the valves where they make contact with the seat and see if they're cracked/burned and then inspect the seat as well. Removing the values is not too tough and if the seats are burned, most machine shops will come to your place and replace the seats. If the seats are not too badly burned, you may be able to just replace the valve and lap it into the seat with some compound. Actually, in most cases I've encountered, replacing just the valve is all that's necessary. 

[stroker70]

Mike, did you squirt oil in 3 and 4 and retest? If compression increases you have a ring sealing problem. If it does not increase, you have leaking valves or a head gasket leak between the cylinders and they are swapping compression.

[mbflemingkf]

Stoker, do I squirt oil in there and wait a certain period of time or just retest right away?  I did squirt some in #3 and checked again but it didn't change.  Is there any danger in doing it again?  How much oil am I putting down the plug hole anyway??

[dusty]

Mike, While i was at the San diego Meet I had the same problem, Larry Barker came by and told me to re torque the head bolts between 3&4 and i would probably would have to do it more than once. lowe and behold he saved me the job of re doing the gasket again, when i got home the bolts again had to be torqued to specs, Ive been tightening the bolts to 50 pounds/foot and the gasket was supposed to be the one time only torque type

[mbflemingkf]

Dusty, what are your compression readings on each of your 6 cylinders?  Anyone else, what are your compression readings? Is 95 to 100 high enough.  I read in the Service Specs its suppossed to be 120.  This was suppossed to be a rebuild engine already (abeit about 17 years ago).  Thanks, guys...

[joefrazer]

Mike, squirt about a teaspoon full of oil down EACH cylinder and with ALL of the spark plugs removed, redo your compression test. Give the oil 2 or 3 minutes to works its way down around the rings. Any motor oil is fine. If the numbers increase, you have faulty rings. If the numbers stay the same, you either have a valve seating issue (burned vale(s)) or worn seats or perhaps...and this is rarely the case, head bolts that need retorqued. As was mentioned, if the numbers don't come up at least by 15-20 lbs, retorque the head bolts, run the engine to operating temp and rerun the compression test.

My 54 blew the head gasket between 3 and 4 while driving thru Chicago traffic. I drove all the way into Wisconsin and back to the Ohio/Indiana line before it finally let go and the car quit. Quite a testament to the ruggedness of the KF engine!

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

Hi,

Several points worth knowing:

1.  The Kaiser-Willys Service Bulletin that covers 1954 Kaiser and Willys Passenger Car engines shows the 226 at 120-130 for compression; you are way off the mark across the board.

2.  The comments about burned valves are for the most part correct, especially if the engine has not had the required/suggested valve adjustments as noted in servicing information. Also be aware that the 1954 226 engines for Kaisers had valve rotators installed; they are supposed to slightly turn the valves each combustion cycle to help prevent the burning issue.

3.  If this engine does NOT already have hardened valves and valve seats installed, it would not be a bad idea to do it.  Today's gasoline does not have the lead in it that was used when our cars were new to help lubricate and insullate (especially on exhaust valves) those parts of the engine.   Kaiser and Willys 226 blocks were not induction hardened until late in the 1959 model year.

[Doc]

Is that 50 ft-lbs now acceptable versus the manual's 30-35 ft-lbs?  Perhaps that contributed to my "assumed" blown head gasket on a rebuilt engine with less than miles on it albeit numerous start ups and idles. I don't need to be breaking any head bolts whenever this engine should ever be addressed down the pike.

[mbflemingkf]

If you have all new head bolts installed, it may not be too risky.  Otherwise, sounds like a great way to snap off a few in the block.  I'd recommend sticking with the 30-35 lb as recommended.

[Fid]

The symptom you have is consistent with every case of a burned exhaust valve that I've had. 105 - 120 lbs on all cylinders except 60 on 3 or 4. It's certainly worth trying the other suggestions first before tearing into it.

[dusty]

Mike the readings are as follows the engine has 6-8 hours running on the Ed Ewing engine since overhauled and trailered to San Diego #1--117 #2 115-- #3 119 #4 118--#5 110-- #6 111 I was working on the carb today and will run another comp check later next week , after reading all about the other inputs it should be interesting. The head has been decked and the head milled, hard valve seats.high output oil pump and water pump w/ss vanes & recored radiator

[mbflemingkf]

All, my 54 Kaiser Kaiser won't start AT ALL now.  It's getting spark to the points and I've checked and double checked everything several times.  Have lost count on how many times I'm removed and cleaned the spark plugs.  New condenser, tried 2 rotors and 2 coils...all the same.  It spins like it wants to start, but nooooooooo.  Getting gas and even sprayed starter spray in the carb.  Removed, cleaned points, and reset.

Is it possible that with this compression at only 60 lbs on 3 & 4 that it just quit alltogether?

I'm at a total loss as to what to do next!!??   

PS...there seems to be more gas laying in the bottom of the carb box (54 Kaiser).  Is this normal?  Is gas suppossed to leak through somehow?

[Doc]

With all the problems I've had with this '51 Frazer, I'm not sure I can be any help other than to suggest perhaps check the neutral safety switch if there's one on the steering column, check for vacuum hose off or vaccum leak, make sure the distributor has not turned and changed the timing, be sure you have a full 6V starting power. I could not get my '54 Early Special to start awhile back and finally used one of those big 6V/12V rolling starters from ebay and got the thing fired up.  Believe, I know the fustration! 

[pnw_oldmags]

Mike, 

This summer I drove my 53 K in the AM, parked it and it would not start in the PM.  Had new plugs, points, condenser.   Key on had spark to coil.  Turned out though when the key went to the start position the power to the coil went away.  Ran a hot wire to the coil and it started right up.  Had to replace the ignition switch to fix the problem.  I did lose some hair over this but runs great now.