Received your PM. Here is contact info on the rare and very reasonable 53 club "coupe" for $6000 obo in Onyx --> I am in Rome, Ga and will give you more details if you enjoy the pics. Thanks, Steve (Lloyd) ( 706-252-2052 )
I have not been in contact with Mr. Lloyd since I bowed out of making an offer. I made recommendations to him to get it running, which adds value. I did personally speak with Mr. Lloyd and found him to be honest and extremely pleasant. My issue was I could not close the deal "quickly" as I am involved in getting 4 purchased cars delivered.
I am as much a "limited production" guy as the next one but if I had an "apples to apples" choice between Mr. Lloyd's 2 door club car (Onyx) and Mr. Lances 4 door Onyx Dragon it's not a contest. They made, what? about 2400 53 Manhattan 2 doors and 1300 or so Dragons.
So the numbers are not an issue. Both are rare and given Carlton Spencers desire to colorize KF cars, there are going to be few numbers matching 53 Onyx cars like these 2. So it comes down to which car is better. There is ZERO doubt in my mind that Mr. Lloyds car is superior. We know the history. It was owned and maintained by his dad and prior was owned by a significant collector that favored KF cars. It's not perfect but should be a get in and enjoy car now.
I have a personal history with Mr. Lance. I have purchased 2 vehicles from him. I have spent a considerable amount of time with him. Frankly, he looked about 60 years old in the mid 90's and I thought he was out of business when he closed in an old location near Bates City and moved to his new location. I figured when the Bates City location ceased, he had died. Guess not.
He relied for many years on locals basically giving him cars that were in the woods. He would go pick them up for $150 total cost and offer them for $1500. I do not have an issue with this as he saved many cars and he has costs. But he oversells cars like any salesman, as you have noted. (i.e. this price is good today only)
Cash clearly talks. I think if someone showed up with $3000 comprised of 30 $100 bills, the Dragon would have a new owner. NOBODY is going to buy it for $6000. Only those of us on this forum and in the KFOCI are fascinated with Dragons. if some shmo from KC stops in on the way back to KC, he is looking for 55 Chevys, end of story. And I think Mr. Lance cut his teeth on the speculation driven market of the late 1980's where if you put a crappy 57 Chevy out there for sale, a KC guy working at the Pontiac plant, ahead on his mortgage by 2 months, would buy it at a premium.
So Mr. Lance could have this car for quite awhile. He can explain all day long how rare the Dragon is but it's a 4 door sedan to everyone but the crowd here. Look at ebay. There is a Dragon for sale from a TX that has been on there for 2 years. Stardust Ivory I think? Full-on project but they won't budge off $1395 (I've tried) Stupid. First, it needs everything, very rough and missing key Dragon jewelry. So it sits and sits. The audience is very small (us) so it's dumb to say how rare it is.
But Mr. Lance, bless his heart, lives in a vacuum because of his age and his copy of the "Standard Catalog of American Cars" that says Dragons are "really rare". What is the top price some of you would pay for a full-on Dragon project? $1500, $2000?
Doesn't matter if Charlie Lance's Dragon runs. I want to rebuild the motor for security sake, don't you?
Interior needs redone (except dash looks decent) Body needs paint ($5000-$7000 done right) Look, you either have completed, restored cars that are nice or you don't.
Those that don't will be looking at $15,000 to $35,000 restoration costs minimum. So, this means initial purchase cost needs to be no more then $2,000, maybe $3,000 for special model like a Dragon.
Therefore, Mr. Lloyds 53 Manhattan Club coupe is a huge bargain as it has most critical stuff already rebuilt or replaced, has decent Onyx paint and nice replacement interior. Tweak it? yes, but no need to do a full on restoration like my Polar Grey Virginian. My purchase price? $600. When the seller told me "It's a Virginian!" I said "take it or leave it". Now it's in my garage. Mr. Lance may have his "Dragon" quite a number of years. $3000 is a fair and reasonable price for that cool car. I would gather 30 $100 bills and see if he bites. If not, walk away. Just my thoughts.
Part of the problem with outside forces trying to dictate pricing of KF cars is that there isn't mcuh difference between a "normal" KF and one of the special models (excepting maybe the convertible) Take the 53 Dragon. Jewelry only. You could get a nicely equipped 53 Manhattan with Hydramatic. Next to a Dragon it looks pretty much as nice. But in the reference manual, non members see limited production and add $$$ to the sales price.
Issue is not the capitalistic country we live in, which allows this, but that the car in question may not fall into the hands of a collector and restorer who will preserve it. As with this Lance Onyx Dragon. It deserves to be in the hands of a KFOCI restorer, not sitting for another 5 years on Charlie Lances car lot because he wants a 250% profit instead of a 100% profit. P****s me off! Or the ebay Stardust ivory Dragon....
Welcome to the dark side of collecting.
