KFOC Vice President

[Roadmaster49]

The electronic forums supported by each club seldom have many of the high rollers (read: President / VP / BOD / Chief Judges) active on them.   I highly doubt Charlotte or others will make themselves available on this forum for criticism. Remember, criticism is an art form, not a negative that is often considered in today's world.  Criticism can also be called a (softer) debate. 

That we have Jim and Gordie check in a better percentage then most clubs. 

I firmly disagree with the notion that attendees at Nationals should be the voters because they took the time to attend. A National meet is no more or no less the club then the publications, or chapter get togethers or camaraderie from more casual associations.  It's neat, but few of the members can ever in any given year attend a National Meet, so it should not be held against the 95% that can't attend.

There are many ways to handle increased and more democratic voting.  if you don't want to send out national ballots to members, then consider having regions vote and send a representative to the National Meet.

The BCA has a $500 stipend to allow BOD members to attend each National meet in their 3 year period.  I don't think this club has that deep of pockets to do this, but it is an acknowledgement by that club that they require and need National officers to gather at least once annually at the flagship event. 

[Terry T]

Dragon,

You have just made the case to amend our judging rules.
If details are not written on the judging sheets, inconsistencies can occur.
If we as a club are not going to correct this idea of "judging experts" without details on paper, eliminate judging.

[Dragon]

My point is, if Gordie and Jim are willing to work on these issues, they will get my vote.

[Gordie]

The electronic forums supported by each club seldom have many of the high rollers (read: President / VP / BOD / Chief Judges) active on them.   I highly doubt Charlotte or others will make themselves available on this forum for criticism. Remember, criticism is an art form, not a negative that is often considered in today's world.  Criticism can also be called a (softer) debate. 

That we have Jim and Gordie check in a better percentage then most clubs. 

I firmly disagree with the notion that attendees at Nationals should be the voters because they took the time to attend. A National meet is no more or no less the club then the publications, or chapter get togethers or camaraderie from more casual associations.  It's neat, but few of the members can ever in any given year attend a National Meet, so it should not be held against the 95% that can't attend.

There are many ways to handle increased and more democratic voting.  if you don't want to send out national ballots to members, then consider having regions vote and send a representative to the National Meet.

The BCA has a $500 stipend to allow BOD members to attend each National meet in their 3 year period.  I don't think this club has that deep of pockets to do this, but it is an acknowledgement by that club that they require and need National officers to gather at least once annually at the flagship event.

Some clubs pay for the President of the club to attend the National Meet but to pay for all of the officers would be too much of an expense.  I feel that an individual that is an officer has a duty to attend as many meets as possible and to definitely attend the official or National meet and to report on his or her progress and club business regarding their office from time to time. 

All of the judging information can not be printed on the judging sheets but I agree with Jack that we should provide as much information as possible for each and every model of our cars to aid in the correct restoration and to do so by verified information from parts books, letters to dealers and distributors from the factory, service bulletins, data books and other verifiable sources.  There is much good information out there and we discover more and more as we dig into these sources.  Good consistent judging depends on information that can be verified.

[Roadmaster49]

Gordie (and others)

I really don't mean to harp on the fact that I belong to other clubs and that I consider some of what they do helpful but here I go again.   Judges are in high demand but nonetheless, the Buick Club REQUIRES a pre-judging seminar the day before the judging.  I have attended 4 of these and I have judged Buicks at National meets.

The meeting/seminar is held indoors with a slide projector and the Chief Judge or his designated assistant goes through several but not all of important details to note when judging.  Please consider that Buicks have been built from approx. 1903 to present so there is much more to cover then a KF 10 year production - even with Willys and affiliated makes.

Again, the club is going to have to benchmark to better run clubs and make hard changes if you want improvement and this will upset the status quo and hurt individuals feelings that have been in charge.  I get a sense from some of you that those in charge feel a sense of entitlement and no one will stand up to them and say enough is enough.

From personal experience, I can say that change isn't always desired. Many old time members like continuity and just want to enjoy their National meets without fuss (and receive their Quarterlys and newsletters without fail).

As in the Buick Club I personally think it's imperative that the club is the voice of stewardship.  What is an authentic accurate KF is vitally important well past our lives.  IF the judging is allowed to be interpreted by a minority and no correction is made, then it will only get worse.

Or, just have fun National meets without these discussions or concerns. 

[Gordie]

Fred did what he thought was correct according to his ideas but he is now gone and he has been replaced by documented facts and they must take the place of old memories.  We are well on the way to having great information on all of our cars at our fingertips.  Many of the members have contributed to this but the idea and most of the work has been done by Jack Mueller and he has spent years going thru his large library and pulling out little known facts on each year and model of our cars.  Look for a wonderful addition to our knowledge unfold when the newest edition of the handbook comes out in digital form soon.

[Aeroman]

Several notes from me on all the discussion here:
1. I will probably not be able to attend this years convention, although I thought I would be there.
2. I am an active member, have been for 34 years and will continue to be involved in the club.
3. I believe voting rights belong to all paid members, associates and life members too.
4. The Hudson Club has annual ballots included in an issue of their monthly magazine. The membership can then vote on their Directors. The Directors then decide on who amongst them will be pres, vp, etc. The Directors are each representing a specific location in the country (i.e. Mid-West, Southeast, etc.). They make the decisions for the club. The general populace does not. This system works extremely well for that club but for it to work for us, but it would require a constitutional and by-law overhaul. We wouldn't have to go that far, we could still elect pres, vp, etc. and we could include amendments on the ballot (annual or every other year). Whoever actually mails them back into the registrar is who votes.
5. Jack Mueller has been working on judging standards for many years and many of us have helped but club management in the past few years has stopped progress. I know I will be writing standards for the Willys Aero and have already completed much of it. Charlotte (our chief judge) has always wanted written standards to refer to, as do many of the rest of us. If Jim and Gordie are in favor of that, they will have my vote, if only I could attend the National.
6. There is always a judges meeting before judgement day at our national, although it does not go into any great depths. Written reference standards would be welcome here.
7. This is the digital age. The club needs to be very involved with website. Perhaps some of the website should be protected for paid members?
8. Kaisers, Henry J's and Willys Aeros, even a few Frazers keep showing up in street rod publications. There are people out there interested in our cars. Although I am not a rodder, I am determined to be tolerant and encourage those that are if they are putting one of our favorite vehicles back on the street. We need to get them involved. The club needs to advertise again, both digitally and in magazines. Have you seen the Studebaker Club ads, "We Invented Cool" and others? We need to follow that example.

[joefrazer]

In another thread, I listed several agenda items I would address if elected to office. They include, but are not limited to:

1. Stabilize the membership numbers.
2. Reinstate the club magazine.
3. Enhance the website.
4. Judging.

Much has been said by many so I won't rehash, but know that I am listening!

[Roadmaster49]

In another thread, I listed several agenda items I would address if elected to office. They include, but are not limited to:

1. Stabilize the membership numbers.
2. Reinstate the club magazine.
3. Enhance the website.
4. Judging.

Much has been said by many so I won't rehash, but know that I am listening!

Yes I noticed that and this agenda is excellent.  No issues from me.   $35 is not an issue for me, and I consider so many of you friends and have received zero negativity from the website and communications, that I'll join back now and keep it going. 

[Roadmaster49]

Aeroman (Rick) makes excellent points as well.  The Hudson Club does just what the Buick Club does except our Board of Directors (BOD) can come from anywhere, not regional.    Again, change will be difficult but if it appears necessary, then go for it. 

It's too bad but some old car clubs are having difficulty.  KFOCI, Olds Club has corruption that cost the club money, the Studebaker Drivers Club (SDC) had to rewrite by-laws in the face of money/corruption issues and I ran for a BOD position within the BCA because of similar "power struggle" issues.  One of the Packard clubs is hurting.