Last Word on Judging Standards-2013 National Convention

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

Please note that I have not been presented with copies of any Judging Standards for K-F or Willys products including Kaiser Darrin sports cars.  As such, I do not know what is contained within these documents or if the material is actually correct.  As a result, I as Club Historian do not represent the information as being accurate.  I have no intention to look at any Judging Standards material if it is presented to me between now and the National Convention.

Jack Mueller
Club Historian KFOCI

[Terry T]

YOU SAY--WHAT?

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

Thank you, Terry for your interesting response to my post.  Instead of calling me or emailing me direct, your post allows me to respond on the forum so all can read, digest & come to their on conclusions.

Written restoration standards (I was told the materials would no longer be called Judging Standards but Restoration Standards) were intended, as I understand it, to be the "referee" or "decider" on what is correct for a vehicle.  I also understood that no material would be shown to the membership in general (such as a group of Darrin owners) unless I, as Club Historian, had a chance to check the items out and ask questions about anything that appeared to be an inconsistency.  There is also a legal side to all this when it comes to misrepresenting condition, equipment, etc.  Since I do not know what's in it I refuse to put the club (and myself) at any legal risk over content. 

In short, I had no input in the material to be shown at the 2013 National Convention so I will not endorse the content as being accurate.  I will be happy to discuss this with any member on a one-to-one basis by phone or email in advance of the National Convention.

 

[Aeroman]

WOAH. Jack, I have no idea what you're talking about. Has someone put together a Restoration Guide without club consent? If so, the club should not endorse it until review by the experts in each specific car. I think Club the Historian probably needs final say, but there is a Willys Register and a Darrin register and now a Dragon register. There are other club members very knowledgeable in their particular car and, if nothing else, a committee NEEDS to be created to review this restoration guide before the club could EVER endorse it. PERIOD.

[pnw_oldmags]

As a tech guy and Editor I have been working on several Judging Standard / Restoration Formats.  Not proclaiming that I am an expert but trying to present a format the experts could submit their information to and then I could help organize the information into a standard format. 

The first one I presented to our Chief Judge in San Diego was for the Henry J / Allstate was a 72 page 8 1/2 X 11 Booklet.  This booklet attempted to cover all 13 different models in Class 04.  The numerous models and all the differences made it hard to follow.  This version did get several very helpful experts to help contribute and review content.

My second attempt was to bring the guidelines online with the ability to add guidelines that would be good for the entire class or a specific model.  The idea here was that an owner of a car or a judge of a car is really only looking at one model ... why confuse them with information for multiple models all at once.

This format has been on CircleKF.com for almost a year now with very little feedback.  When I requested experts to help little or none was offered up.  If people had difficulty with the site content or organization I would like to hear about it so I could have a chance to make it user friendly.  The organization has been done around the KFOCI Judging Form ... but truly my concern is more towards accurate information to restore with. 

If you wish to view the current online format ... do look at Class 04 HJ or Class 03 Darrin. 

http://circlekf.com/kfrestore/

The software is designed to allow authorized Experts to update the guidelines online but anyone should be able to view them.  Currently no printed version has been designed or programed.  I have been surprised by the flurry of interest in the upcoming National Judging Standard discussion.  Glad to see it!!

If the formats get accepted and endorsed then Jack and others by all means should be asked to contribute all the accurate and necessary information to make these standards be what we all need.

My thoughts.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

Various parties in the club have been working on Restoration Standards because some objected to the word "Judging" as in Judging Standards.  This goes back quite a while; I started when Mike Neubecker was President and current President Mike Knittel approved my continuation of the project. 

[Roadmaster49]

It should be called and referenced as JUDGING Standards not restoration standards.   The CLUB has a National meet and regionals with Judging and if (totally optional) a person wants their KF product judged in one of these meets they need to 1. join the club and 2. bring a car to the meet for KFOCI judging. 

How and by whom a car is restored is up to an individual and the term "restoration" is bandlied about to decribe street rods and authentic cars. 

I know of no club I have been affiliated with that sought to refer to their judging guide as a restoration guide.  While I appreciate and agree that a club should have judging guides that seek to give an appropriate authentic car high scoring, ultimately this is a hobby and should be about comraderie, driving and enjoying the cars. 

While I trust that Jack is very knowledgeable about the KF Brand and authenticity, ANY effort to provide judging standards and insight should be backed by EVIDENCE.  This would be known low mileage survivors and literature.  Having a judging committee is not a bad idea.  And finally, a corrected judging manual and procedure does not need to be done overnight.  Set a 5 year period to improve the quality of judging and then review it periodically. 

[Gordie]

Roadmaster has a good point in asking for verification on any points made in our judging standards but some literature will get you in trouble as far as authenticity is concerned.  Most sales brochures were printed long before the cars were introduced and even factory issued press release photos can have features that the production cars never had.  A good example is the 1946 Graham Paige browntone sales folder on the Frazer car.  It was printed before a car was ever produced and the car featured was from styling drawings.  The early Frazer ads and sales folders showed painted grills which the Frazer never had except in prototype form.  The earliest Kaiser ads featured bumpers that were very similar to the Frazer and a few early press release photos of the first cars even had these bumpers but they did not get into production.  Letters and bulletins from the factory often describe changes in production and even have serial numbers that indicate when the changes took place.  These and service bulletins show many production changes in the cars.  A complete set of letters and bulletins are hard to come by but many of us have many of them and they will be very useful in verifying running changes in the production of the cars.

[Roadmaster49]

Gordie
That's an excellent point regarding relying on printed factory materials.  It's a process, and once guidelines are accepted and printed, they would be under continuous review.

[Dragon]

There is no doubt that we need to use factory materials.  I have seen many items wrong in Judging and the owners will say they bought the car new this way.  Many times the dealership would add or change items. Such as side view mirrors, tires, oil canister filters, backup lights, and others.  So the way the car was purchased new is not always correct.