NEW JUDGING CLASS

[Terry T]

DO WE HAVE ONE FOR THIS?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Other-Makes-m35a2-Kaiser-Deuce-and-a-Half-Bobbed-M35A2-Deuce-and-a-Half-built-by-Kaiser-/281245712444?forcerrptr=true&hash=item417b8d003c&item=281245712444&pt=US_Cars_Trucks

[joefrazer]

Any Kaiser built vehicle built thru the sale of the vehicle arm of the company in 1970 is welcome at a KFOCI event. We have had a few military vehicle displayed at judged meets and if memory serves, they were placed in the factory special class.

This brings up an interesting question...should the club try to market to military vehicle owners as a way to boost both membership numbers and vehicle counts ?

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

OK, Mr. President, who has the information to set up this class?  You maybe?  I don't and have no interest in spending more of my own money to set up the technical support materials (service manuals, parts books, etc) for vehicles of type.  Also, would we include vehicles built at the South Bend plant by Studebaker before K-F acquired the operation?

[joefrazer]

Actually, that work would be the job of our chief judge and their committee. If the club was to invite Kaiser built military vehicles, it is my opinion that the judging team would be on point to obtain the necessary information to properly judge a vehicle...not solely that of a historian. They may tap the historian for available information, but it would be expected that other sources like factory manuals, literature, the vehicles themselves, and their owners would be employed to help build a documentation library. A quick check on the internet revealed a Wikipedia page with plenty of technical documentation...at no cost...that could be used to kick start a simple judging sheet.

This isn't to say the club is even thinking of actively courting owners of the military type vehicles Kaiser built...right now, that's not on our radar. I was simply stating what the club does today, recognize Kaiser, Frazer, and Willys built vehicles from 1946 thru 1969. This would include the M35A2 Terry noted.

[Gordie]

The Kaiser Frazer Corp. built airplanes for the Military during the Korean War also.  Should we include them?    Are Rototillers judged?  Personally I think that we should stick to vehicles built by K-F from 1946 thru the IKA models in Argentina.  Those big trucks just don't really fit in and there are already truck clubs where they are welcome.  I would welcome a new class for original cars with the original paint and upholstery.  It would encourage the maintaining of original cars as they are the models that we use for restoring our cars.  There are not too many original cars left and we should encourage their display.  I sponsored an original class for the judging at the Queen Mary in Long Beach, CA many years ago.  It was won by a 1947 Kaiser that was just an average car but all original.  Many clubs have an original class.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

I agree with Gordie. 

[joefrazer]

The AACA has a class for original vehicles, HPOF, Historical Preservation of Original Features. It's proven to be successful for them...the number of barn find cars appearing in the class has dramatically increased in the last few years.

For many years, the KF club's emphasis has been on restored cars, leaving original cars behind. In some ways, it's turned off some folks from bringing a car to a meet. Instead, we should welcome them for what they are, an original and basically unrestored car. In many ways, they are a truer picture of how a car left the factory than a restored one.

Back to the military topic, while I do not advocate courting their owners at this time, the club does need to wake up and realize, as a single marque organization, there needs to be some thought given to what the future holds if we continue to live with blinders on. One way to open up would be to officially recognize unrestored cars for what they are.

[JoeKeys2010]

I am no way qualified to render an opinion one way or another as this is the first car club I have ever joined and have only been here 6 months or so.  If there is any value I could add it would the prospective of a new member with his first Kaiser.  I'm 49 so that will give you an idea of the generation I come from.  I own a 1949 Kaiser that was in pretty good shape but there is no headliner, all the glass was bad, robber rotted or rock hard, engine painted wrong color as is the body and the seat covers/door panels in faded rotted condition.  If someone told me there was a KF show going on across the street I probably would have put mine in the garage and closed the door.  I would simply be embarrassed to take my car in it current condition to a show.  So my first question is should I be.  I mean honestly I would be embarrassed to park my car next to someone's who was in good condition.  If the answer is I should bring the car then how do you get someone like me confident enough to do so?

I think it would be awesome to own an unmolested unrestored car, and here is where I show my inexperience, do they exist?  I haven't been around KF events (the only one I have ever been to was in Mobile Alabama in the early 2000's) so I honestly don't know.  I assumed everyone bought one and had to do this that and the other to it or buy one that this that and the other had already been done to.  I would think that if you had an original car and there were enough of them they would deserve a class of their own.   

This website is very useful and I have found a lot of information and even made a friend or two on it but it seems like only a small part of the club posts anything.  I even look at the Facebook page and it is not widely used.  If that is true they are missing out and perhaps even worse those of us who would benefit from their knowledge/experience miss out to.

I very much enjoy the club and appreciate the efforts being made to modernize so that it will be attractive to future generations.  Even at 49, no one lives for ever and we should perhaps think of making the site more attractive to those who may follow us so that it continues on. 

[joefrazer]

Amen.

Drive your Kaiser. Who cares what it looks like! You should see my 47...it's ugly but runs like a top. I think it gets more attention than my 53k.

And don't be afraid to spread the word about our website and the club!

[Corsairdeluxe]

When I lived in SoCal.there was an old multi colored, beat up Kaiser with a surfboard hanging out the back in the Huntington Beach area. Everyone loved it. It had it's own clique.When it showed up it drew more attention than Rudy's convertable!

[Gordie]

I have a nice original 1951 Kaiser Dlx. Club Coupe but it will not compare to a restored car.  I have never brought it for judging but it would fit in nicely with a "touring"  class.

[montefrazer]

This is a nice idea but the problem is in defining what, exactly, is an "original" car. Is a car with a rebuilt engine original if nothing else has been done? If parts from one or morel different "original" parts cars are put into one to make it better or replace missing pieces is it still "original"? After 60+ years there are very few running cars that haven't had something done to upgrade them mechanically, cosmetically, or both.

[Gordie]

Some clubs consider a car original if it has its original upholstery and only one fender has been repainted.  Bolt on items are hard to classify so if they are original to that type of car they would be acceptable.  We would expect tires batteries, fan belts generators and starters to be replaced over the years and don't detract from the patina of an original car if they are exact replacements for the original parts.  There was a 1951 original Kaiser sedan at the Pigeon Forge TN meet many years ago that was very low mileage and looked brand new.  There aren't many of those kinds of cars out there and they should be cherished.

[Aeroman]

Back to the discussion about military vehicles built by Kaiser: In the past, if any military trucks ever showed up, they were usually stuck in the Willys class with any Aeros that showed up, just like we did with Jeeps, wagons, Jeepsters and trucks. Since there are usually only 1 or 2 Aeros at a meet, this practice can probably continue, although I don't like being judged against something so completely different from a passenger car. I don't think we should encourage them to join our club, nor do I think we should discourage them - just accept them if they show up. Funny, I don't really have a problem with Jeepsters, wagons and trucks, but somehow Jeeps and military don't quite fit our mission.

As to original cars, I'm all for special recognition for them, but keep them in their original class. Perhaps a spot on the judging form and windshield card to designate HPOF, then award HPOF culled from all the classes.