Transferring VIN tags

[Carpenter]

If a body deteriorates to the point of being parted out, can the VIN tags be removed and attached to another body and that body become the car with the tags?

[Fid]

More than one person I know of has done it. (I haven't)

[MarkH]

In the body section of the Aero repair manual it says if the entire body is damaged beyond reasonable repair "a new body should be installed". It goes on to describe a complete bare shell, un-primered. I do believe I've seen the hours alloted for that swap in the flat rate manual too.
 
Strange as that concept is now, it seems to make clear the factory thought the body shell was just another part of the whole car.

[Carpenter]

Just wondering if KFOCI accepts it.  I have a nice body and tags from one that was damaged beyond repair. 

[MarkH]

Just wondering if KFOCI accepts it.  I have a nice body and tags from one that was damaged beyond repair.

I would think so in the case of an Aero since that replacement part and procedure is precisely described in Aero factory repair manuals.

If you're not working on an Aero then a check of your model's manual might be informative.

I have read some posts on this forum from the past that discuss an interesting club history of  judging standards. Maybe you can help set a precedent for your model, or for this particular issue in general.

[r1lark]

If a body deteriorates to the point of being parted out, can the VIN tags be removed and attached to another body and that body become the car with the tags?

Are you asking in regards to swapping the 'new' body onto the existing frame & drivetrain? Or are you asking about transferring the serial number/body tags from one whole car to another whole car?

One for the K-F experts -- did K-F use a "secret" serial number stamped somewhere on the frame, that matched the serial number on the serial/body plate? (Studebaker did - and the Departments of Motor Vehicles in the various states have a reference book that tells them where the number was stamped. If there is a question regarding the vehicle's serial number -- especially if they suspect that the serial number plate has been changed -- they will try to find the "secret" serial number. The problem with Studebakers is that the number was lightly stamped on the bottom flange of the rear frame crossmember......area that is prone to rusting from road spray.)

[MarkH]

I was told there were two locations on the Aero, one exterior and one interior. I never found even a trace of stamping in either location after the body shell was tank stripped clean & shiny.

[Gordie]

If the body types are exactly the same it would probably not be detected ae two door to two door and deluxe to deluxe.  For judging you would have to paint and upholster the replaced body with like upholstery and paint to match the tags.  I once bought a early Frazer with no title or engine.  I had junked out a similar car and kept the title which was registered with the engine number.  I installed the engine and now had with a valid title for my new Frazer.  Many states used the engine number as the serial number up until around 1955.  I am not aware of secret serial numbers on Kaisers or Frazers.

[joefrazer]

On the Darrin, the serial number is stamped near the upper front shock mount on the passenger side and it's visible on my car. I've been told it's also on the upper frame rail at the rear but I've not had the body off my car to prove that.

[Carpenter]

Are the bodies of Kaisers stamped with ID numbers?

[MarkH]

Took another look at the hourly rate book, dated 1954. I'd forgotten it covered all KW cars. I've certainly blown past the hours for an Aero.

[Roadmaster49]

Virtually every state discourages this practice so the process would have to be done pretty well.  It's illegal to swap plates to another car.

I am NOT saying don't do it except on the Dragon, convertibles, early Virginians, Darrin and 55's.  THAT should be discouraged 100%.

Consider the market for muscle cars where documentation is so important to value.  You have a pristine 1970 Dodge Challenger 6 cylinder with a great body.  You have a rusty beyond recognition 1970 Challenger Hemi 4 speed car which if in auction ready shape would be a $200,000 car.  The VIN plates (and Hemi parts) are switched and the seller fraudulently states it is a Hemi 4 speed car with "documentation".

Is it?  No.   So that's my only caution because this subject has been beat to death over on the AACA Forum where the subject pops up from time to time.  So while technically illegal, who cares if the car is a "normal" KF car and not one which trades on rarity and provenance such as a Darrin or Dragon.

Dragons are borderline, but I would not want to even buy a Dragon which is one of 1277, that is nothing but a retagged Manhattan. 

[MarkH]

Virtually every state discourages this practice so the process would have to be done pretty well.  It's illegal to swap plates to another car.

I am NOT saying don't do it except on the Dragon, convertibles, early Virginians, Darrin and 55's.  THAT should be discouraged 100%.

Consider the market for muscle cars where documentation is so important to value.  You have a pristine 1970 Dodge Challenger 6 cylinder with a great body.  You have a rusty beyond recognition 1970 Challenger Hemi 4 speed car which if in auction ready shape would be a $200,000 car.  The VIN plates (and Hemi parts) are switched and the seller fraudulently states it is a Hemi 4 speed car with "documentation".

Is it?  No.   So that's my only caution because this subject has been beat to death over on the AACA Forum where the subject pops up from time to time.  So while technically illegal, who cares if the car is a "normal" KF car and not one which trades on rarity and provenance such as a Darrin or Dragon.

Dragons are borderline, but I would not want to even buy a Dragon which is one of 1277, that is nothing but a retagged Manhattan.

I'll go with you on this as far as unscrewing a few screws & switching tags. As for swapping all your original model parts to a new body stamping, I'm going to have to go with the factory on this one.

I know muscle car clones are a problem but I'm not sure your example would be considered a clone since a complete set of original factory Hemi parts were taken from a properly titled but rotted body shell and installed onto an identicle body stamping.

Practially any rusty body shell can be repaired with herculean effort. The question would be, what percentage still connected to the body tag is original, or percentage of repair sections erase the body's original identity as compared to a solid replacement shell?

I remember reading years ago about a court ruling on a hydroplane name Miss Budweiser. Going from memory........ so I could be off on some of this.......the boat was almost totally wrecked and rebuilt from just one original sponson. There was a suit because the original boat design would not comply with current class restrictions for new construction. The judge found that the sponson constituted the original boat, found in Miss Budweisers favor and she continued to be grandfathered in.

[Kory Fox]

I've been wondering about this for quite some time. When I 1st got my 48 Kaiser from my grandfather I had all the body work and paint done. The shop doing the work went under just as it was being finished. I had to scramble just to get the car back as they were closing the doors. Discovered later that several things were missing including the body tags. Can't remember who it was, but someone on this forum sent me a set from a car they're father had scrapped years ago. My plan is to attach them but I guess they won't match the title. But what else can I do? I never will sell the car anyways. One of my sons will get it when I die.

[MarkH]

I've been wondering about this for quite some time. When I 1st got my 48 Kaiser from my grandfather I had all the body work and paint done. The shop doing the work went under just as it was being finished. I had to scramble just to get the car back as they were closing the doors. Discovered later that several things were missing including the body tags. Can't remember who it was, but someone on this forum sent me a set from a car they're father had scrapped years ago. My plan is to attach them but I guess they won't match the title. But what else can I do? I never will sell the car anyways. One of my sons will get it when I die.

This guy might be able to make a plate with your title number on it, and a trim tag too.
http://www.datatags.com/