Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: dusty on January 25, 2018, 06:52:45 PM
-
what is the difference between a standard and an automatic starter, I know they have separate part numbers for the starter but they look the same. My starter will not back off from the std xmission flywheel .
-
Assuming you have the correct starter, the problem is probably related to the bendix. Either the clutch is no good or the anti drift pin that holds the pinion back once the car is running is not locking in place. If excessive oil gets into the bendix, it will cause clutch slippage.
-
The information we got years ago from John Parker is the standard transmission starter pinion housing is 3 25/64" and the automatic transmission starter housing
is 3 21/32". It affects engagement of the Bendix to the flywheel. The delco number for the automatic is #1107088 (51/52) and #1107126 (53/54).
The standard trans Delco numbers are #1107087 (51/52) and #1107125 (53/54).
-
Because Kaiser-Frazer bought automatics from General Motors (the Hydra-Matic) K-F had to create a new flywheel to match the pattern needed for the Hydra-Matic. The existing flywheel for the 3-speed manual or overdrive version on the 226 was not the same as the H-D gearbox so Kaiser-Frazer had two different versions. The flywheels are not interchangable and neither are the starter motors for that reason. Char is right about the Bendix issue being the result of all this.
This is only on the 226; Henry J's never had HD but due to system load issues, if your HJ or Allstate is set up for Delco-Remy components, only the D-R starter should be used; if Auto-Lite, only the AL starter should be used.
-
if your HJ or Allstate is set up for Delco-Remy components, only the D-R starter should be used; if Auto-Lite, only the AL starter should be used.
It is not physically possible to mount the DR starter in a HJ that was originally Autolite and visa-versa. Even if you did change the clutch housing and flywheel (or the whole engine for that matter) and installed a DR starter in a HJ that was originally Autolite, you'd have to change the wiring and the stater button as they operate completely different from one another.
-
I have had several Henry J's and my experience with the starters leaves me a fan of the auto lite. The weak point of the Delco unit is the solenoid. The switch inside the solenoid is subject to wear and the starter has to be removed to fix it. Either starter is tough to remove.In good shape they are equal in performance. I think the flywheel tooth count is different .
-
With all of the response i am reading, as i understand John Parkers information makes most sense to me as all the Bendix appear to be the same.
-
There is another small thing about the starters...the Bendix actually. For the full size Kaisers (51-55) there was a change made in the Bendix operation. The early delco starters came with a Bendix designed to disengage when the key was allowed to go from 'start' to 'run'. The starters are numbered #1107087 (std)
and #1107088 (automatic). The Bendix KF part number that was supplied with those starters is #208248. Starting in late 1952 when the Delco starter numbers #1107125 (std) and #1107126 (auto) were introduced the Bendix had changed to a 'folo-thru' design which meant the Bendix remained engaged until the
motor reached a certain rpm, That Bendix carried a part number of #213622 and is completely compatible to be used on the earlier starters and is a better
design ( I think ) for starting our cars. By the way, should you wind the Bendix teeth out to the end of the shaft manually you will hear a click and that part will NOT retract back. That click was the pre-loaded drift pin which won't release until that mentioned rpm is reached. We went through a lot of worry when Bob did that only to find out from John Parker that you can still install the starter with no worries because as soon as the starter is energized the Bendix will pick up where it is designed to and no damage will occur.