Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: bustidwing on September 09, 2018, 06:35:21 PM
-
curious, 2591 members of the forum? Only 110 above the rank of Newbie, about half of those haven't been active in over a year, subtract the non actual club members and club officers from that half..leaves maybe a handful of club members maybe, supporting this forum? The math isn't good folks.............
-
Here are some more interesting demographics:
The majority of KFOCI club members are over 65 years of age
According to my digging, the majority of members either:
Do not have a computer and do not want one
Have a computer but do not do anything on the internet
or
Use the computer and internet only for communication with friends and family (email)
I did tnis research several years ago with regards to the future of KFOCI HANDBOOK.
-
Too much bashing of our "deplorable" elected President to be silent on the computer.
Also, appreciate this forum as a means of being in touch with leadership, other members, and gathering of Kaiser information.
-
Certainly a lot more people read the forum frequently than participate on it. The forum does a great job of communication for us and works well. Tell us more about the bashing of the "deplorable" elected president. Some of us missed out on that.
-
Some, not me, prefer to use the KF Facebook page.
-
Ok, sounds like everyone is happy and comfortable with the almost non existent actual member support and the current state of the forum, enough said......
Kaiserfrazerlibrary & Terry T have both pegged it. I also think there's a significant number of forum members that read but don't post.
None of those reasons support the conclusion you're projecting on the rest of us, I think we'd all like to see this forum flourish.
You got a fix for these realities?
-
I have a few, but im sure they would be unpopular and scoffed at....."Kaisers never retrench".... before I joined the club I was assured of the huge member support system available when joining the club. that apparently doesn't exist and all im getting are excuses for a forum that been online for over a DECADE .When I was being bullied into joining, I was promised sunshine and roses...so far all I've seen is a cloudy day..Ive tried to email a couple of member with questions on a post or two....want to know how many members have responded? Zero/0. I apologize for being less than impressed,and I have no intent to offend,..... I know the club is just trying to survive, but I am assuming Membership continues to decline?
Let's just start with the one fix that would undoubtedly do the most for the forum.
What's your plan to get the "non tech interested" 65 & up members to participate here?
As for the non existent support...…….. without going through all your posts......….I know I've seen some of your questions answered since you recently joined. I've been hanging around here a while, not every single question I've had got an answer, but quite a few have.
Stick around, contribute what you can, gather what you can. That's about all any of us can do.
-
I guess I'm naive but i think the forum is quite good and appreciate it. Thank You. I still haven't figured out how to join the club though. 77 yrs old. Also, politics has no place on the forum. And how does one progress above the rank of newbee and what do the ranks even mean?
-
I still haven't figured out how to join the club though.
There are 2 ways to join the club: online (with credit card) at www.kfclub.com (click on the JOIN US tab) - or - by mail (with check or money order). A Membership Application is attached.
If you would like to "sample" the email version of our Monthly News Bulletin, send me a request: bulletin@kfclub.com (an application is also included in there).
-
The "ranks" reflect the number of posts people have made since joining.
It is easy to join the club if you want to. The joining on line at the club website (same site as you access the forum from) does work or, if you prefer to send in membership dues, you can contact the Bulletin Editor (the lady who does the monthly newsletter) via email on this club website also and ask for a sample of a past email bulletin. The bulletins contain a membership form that you can print off and mail if that is your preference.
Now for some of the other points, and I speak from 40+ years of experience here:
1. If you can, get involved with the club. The monthly newsletters have "The Grand Schedule" on its cover. This is a list of all regional, divisional or National club events that those organizing same let the Bulletin Editor know about. If you don't see someting in your area (say, up to 100 miles each way from where you live) you can contact the member who is in charge of the region or division that you are a member of based on geography. The break out of regions and divisions, as well as the names/addresses/contact info on these people is part of the QUARTERLY magazines that I have (and, hopefully will continue to) done (starting Spring 2018). These people can help you to get in contact with others who have the same type of vehicle you have (if there is another one in your area).
2. We have more people in the club who periodically sell parts and things KF than those who regularly advertise in the newsletter. Members can run FREE ADS in the newsletter's WANTED section and ask if anyone has a whatzit orcan help with a restoration/ maintenance problem you're having.
3. Some members (I will admit I fall into this category at times) are reluctant to help non-members who have used the Forum to play "hit and run". These are the people who seem to feel (my opinion) that if they can get what they want for free why should they join the club? After all, depending on which size and type you order, the $35.00 annual membership can break down to the price (including tax, where applicable) of just 1 Starbucks Latte a month ($2.92 rounded up to nearest penny). To the non-members who've been part of this Forum for a year or more, isn't worth it to be part of the group?
4. To all Forum members reading this who have cars in running condition, I ask this question: how often do you take your K-F or Willys product to one of your LOCAL general car shows (not hot-rod or muscle car events or those functions intended specifically for one make/type of vehicle)? K-F and Willys products these days rarely show up at local level general shows (and I speak from experience) and are crowd stoppers. Bustidwing's comments in another area of the Forum are typical of what happens when a 1947 Frazer, 1953 Aero Willys, 1952 Henry J or other type shows up and the owner stays with their car(s) to answer questions from the curious. You may even get a new member to join the club because that person found out there are parts available, prices are not as high as they expected and there is a club to provide support.
5. Ideas and opinions from new members ARE WELCOME and DO GET CONSIDERATION. Some ideas may not be workable right away. If any club member feels that they have been ignored, go directly to the Club President via phone call, letter, email, whatever and let him know your thoughts. His information in in the Officers section of the forum. I for one, would like to see the club try to set up a group of members (by the way, some of the more active information givers are not officers of the club) who would act as "technical advisors" on specific year/make/type vehicles to act as a conduit for newer members or those with specific questions about their car(s). If they themselves cannot help on a particular situation, they (hopefully) can refer people to someone who could be more helpful. I have done this a number of times on inquiries that I cannot handle (I am not a mechanic so I can't answer techincal repair questions, for example).
-
When I was being bullied into joining
Wow! I am really sorry to hear this. Not sure who did it or when/how it happened, but please don't judge all club members that way.
before I joined the club I was assured of the huge member support system available when joining the club
There IS a lot of member support in the club ~ please understand that not all KFOCI members are active here, but there are people who will gladly exchange ideas, offer help and become life-long friends if you give them a chance. Don't rely only on the Forum - go to Division & Region meets. Also, get out your Roster & contact people in your area. And, keep posting here ... not everyone spends all day online waiting to answer a question or respond to a comment.
-
I am a club member since 2012. I feel that I have more than gotten my monies worth. I view the forum almost daily and am enriched by what I learn. As you can see by my forum standing I do not respond very much. I feel a kinship with several members that I have purchased parts from.
Keep he forum going...... I truly need it.
KFOCI # 10499
-
Always begging for money
What??!! Please explain. The only monetary request I know of from the club are your annual dues ... unless you want to voluntarily contribute to the club.
-
Ok, sounds like everyone is happy and comfortable with the almost non existent actual member support and the current state of the forum, enough said......
Kaiserfrazerlibrary & Terry T have both pegged it. I also think there's a significant number of forum members that read but don't post.
None of those reasons support the conclusion you're projecting on the rest of us, I think we'd all like to see this forum flourish.
You got a fix for these realities?
I have a few, but im sure they would be unpopular and scoffed at...…………………………………………I know the club is just trying to survive, but I am assuming Membership continues to decline?
I really am interested on how to get the older tech disinterested members to engage technology and contribute to the forum.
They have a huge amount of marque knowledge, and I'm sure everyone here would gladly welcome a way to get them engaged, sharing what they know & boosting forum activity.
Any info you have that will motivate them to contribute to the forum is certainly welcome!
-
Seems to me that you have answered your own predicament Bustedwing.
It behaves you young people to step up and provide the very thing you are expecting others to do for you.
-
quit letting this guy "bustidwing" troll everyone
-
I elect not to Participate further and ask the administrator to evaluate.
-
First, young people don't give a damn about old cars and raving on this forum isn't going to change that. Yes us old car lovers are dying off as is the hobby and we can't change that. Once again I for one appreciate what the forum and club does for us old car people.
-
bustidwing
I am a forum member that is not a KFOCI member. I was at one time when I owned a Kaiser. I have wanted to rejoin many times because frankly the $35 is cheap for what you receive and yes the club needs dues and volunteer donations.
I am a member of the Buick Club of America (BCA) and Cadillac LaSalle Club. I own those makes. I doubt I will own a KF in the future as my inner urban residence is piled up now with cars.
The reason for joining would be the camaraderie, ability to go to shows, the history discussed and the forum. I am friends with more than a fair share of KF folks who are not on the forum. They never will be. I spend way too much time on the forums.
One of my biggest regrets is tossing the membership roster I received when I was a member. YOU need that! Call the guys who own the cars. If they can not help, they will recommend someone who can. You are correct, this forum is much less active and all forums have far more lurkers than contributors.
But who cares if only Gordie, Fid, and a few others provide the assist? You are correct this club is different than others but I guarantee that if you owned a Buick of a certain year, the response rate and quality on the BCA forum would not be much better. But it is better than 1980, when the Internet did not exist, phone calls were made from rotary phones with bad quality and the cost was .17 per minute to talk to a KF expert.
Ying and yang. It's hard to say what is better?
I have noticed a big downturn in topics on the forum and cars for sale leisurely located as Jake used to do. That's my main interest. In all fairness to KFOCI I should send the club $100 for forum support and NOT be a member. The forum costs money to keep going.
Overall it is better than some orphan brand options. Packard has a website that has no club affiliation called Packardinfo.com. Studebaker, Hudson and others have websites with varying success. The AACA which is the 600 pound gorilla in the room, has decreased forum attendance.
There is a discussion on the Buick Reatta forum which basically states that forum "members" are leaving for a Facebook group, kind of like here, someone said that. I am not on Facebook and have no plans to be. What does Facebook have that this forum does not? Not sure.
No clear answer. If you charge folks to use the forum, that would likely kill it.
-
I welcome the administrator to evaluate, and as a equal member to any other member I request that the administrator also review the many derogatory or "trolling" posts provided by a "prominent member" In 2009....and have the courage to tell me what the difference is...
2009 was almost 10 years ago and that member is either likely gone or has changed their approach. I don't even know what you are talking about. You are obviously not happy with the responses provided you but remember forums are limited in their communication capability. These are real people, and face to face is best, followed by phone calls, followed by on topic forum activity.
Just stop answering your critics in this thread and it will get more positive quickly.
-
I welcome the administrator to evaluate, and as a equal member to any other member I request that the administrator also review the many derogatory or "trolling" posts provided by a "prominent member" In 2009....and have the courage to tell me what the difference is...
Courage isn't an issue here, your suggestion that there isn't a difference between you and the "derogatory troll" you reference might be more pertinent.
Maybe step back, take a breath and look at the big picture since you joined? One doesn't have to look very much to see you've gotten several helpful replies to questions in a short amount of time.
You can catch more flies with honey than vinegar...…………………….. just sayin...………….
-
I will say that as a younger member (I'm only 42, so that's pretty young compared to the average age of most car clubs, more particularly of orphaned cars), I've gotten very quick responses to every question I've asked, both on the forum and by email to specific club members. I don't post answers to most questions, because I personally do not have the knowledge. I've lurked on the forum for years, but only joined the club in the last few years, because I didn't have a car, and got updates from my father who was a member.
The simple fact is, younger people in general are just not that interested in car collecting. Most of them don't have a connection to them. They'll go to shows on the weekends, look at them, then go home and forget about them. My connection to Kaisers is through my late father. He loved old cars and old aircraft and shared those loves with me. His family had a number of Kaisers growing up, and they were his favorite. The fact is, until I bought my Dad a 53 Manhattan 5 years ago, I had never even been for a ride in one, much less driven one, because the 54 that my Dad owned wasn't in running condition, and with 3 kids and a disabled wife, my father had neither the time, nor the money to fix it. Now, that has fallen to me, and, come hell or high water, I will drive that 54 one day.
As far as forum membership and participation goes, the plain and simple truth is that this form of online communication is dying, something I have much personal experience with both as an administrator of multiple forums in the past and as a user for over 20 years. 1) They can be costly to maintain. You either need to buy or rent a server and bandwidth to support it. Even using a free version like this one does just means you have to rely on someone else to keep paying for the service. They don't always last. 2) It often requires technical knowledge to maintain, which means time and effort that you have to put in, and often uncompensated for time. A lot of people don't have the time. If they do, they often get burned out after a while and choose to spend their time elsewhere. 3) Many groups are just moving to Facebook. I personally dislike using Facebook for this sort of thing, because it's not as easily searchable and can often get drowned out with Facebook's algorithms on how they display things on your news feed. However, it's free, easy, and has a high user penetration rate. I've seen 2 forums that were once heavily active (hundreds of posts per day) go nearly dormant, as everyone has transferred to Facebook groups. It has also caused a high degree of fragmentation, since what was once all covered on one forum with multiple sub forums is now split into well over 50 Facebook groups.
Getting younger people involved is difficult with ANY group.Again, something I have a pretty good amount of experience with, having either been the president of, or board member of, multiple non-profit organizations. People are happy to make use of your services, but are often very reluctant to pay to join, or donate their own time to help get things done. Without that it basically just ends up falling back upon the same people, time and again, and they either burn out and leave, or they become entrenched and things become difficult to change. It's just reality.
-
define "trolling"
Trolling – (verb) as it relates to internet, is the deliberate act of making random unsolicited and/or controversial comments on internet forums with the intent to provoke an emotional knee jerk reaction from unsuspecting readers to engage in a fight or argument.
-
I’m just posting on this one to add to my score since I haven’t posted in awhile and get called out...also not offended by the newbie designation when I picked up my membership in the club after the old man’s passing. Why the designation of newbies? Well, obviously it allows others to get to identify the New people...smh...you network, and can use something called a phone to talk to other members too...it’s not rocket science to get responses, help, and other advise. Not sure why the attack of the forum, it’s members. I’d rather have a few solid comments on a post to help me than 50 that have no clue like other places. I greatly appreciate all the help I’ve received!