Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Forum
General Category => Cars For Sale & Wanted => Topic started by: darrin502 on March 12, 2019, 09:28:07 PM
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***Henry J Kaiser's Personal 1955 Kaiser With Indian Ceramic (Pink) Leather Interior***
Recently re-discovered Henry J Kaiser's personal 1955 Kaiser (one of two identically built for Mr. and Mrs. Kaiser). Both car's were painted Palm Beach Ivory with Indian Ceramic roof and trimmed identically with Indian Ceramic leather interiors. While it had been known for years in the 60's by local KF members in the Bay area these cars existed it wasn't until the 70's when John Parker first discovered and bought one in Northern California that any survived. It had been rumored that the other car still existed but only recently has it been discovered. Unfortunately the one John Parker found serial # 51367-5216 was scrapped in the late 70's. While it is not known for sure which car Mr. Kaiser drove and which one Mrs. Kaiser drove as both are listed in the Henry J Kaiser Company Automotive fleet Dec. 1 1955 as assigned to Henry J Kaiser.
Fortunately this car still survives today and is a true piece of KF automotive history. If your looking for a 54 or 55 Kaiser than this one is well worth the effort considering it's history. It needs a complete restoration but has all the crucial patterns needed to duplicate the interior. Very little rust. It had a small block 283 installed in the 80's but with the exception of the front engine mounts nothing was cut. It was a running and driving car 10 years ago with the v8 but has been sitting since.
Several unique one off Kaiser's ended up in Oakland Calif. for executive use over the course of the KF corporation since it was where Kaiser had a majority of his business offices. While it used to be fairly common to see unique one off Kaiser's around the bay area over the years it's a rare occurrence anymore as most not in the hands of KF members already have been scrapped over the years. Another one off 1955 Kaiser was scrapped a few years ago by a long time KF member in Northern California and had many unique features never seen on a KF before such as a front seat that folds flat to make into a bed (fortunately the front seat was saved to prove to any no believers it really existed) as well as upholstery never before seen or mentioned in any KF documents (have samples of this as well).
If you want to own a piece of KF automotive history here is your chance to own one of the most unique 1954-55 Kaiser's ever produced.
ANY INTEREST???
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Body photos and price please.
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I was asked by the owner to list the car. I will contact the owner and get the information you need.
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Leave for a week, look what happens. What records if any are available to prove that the car is the special HJK car? I'm not doubting, but the backstory is better and more interesting if there are records.
I would add that ANY 1955 Kaiser is uber-rare in it's own right. I would take it, but I am sure the asking price is a bit high for me. If you don't want to state it, you can PM me.
It's a great story, and clearly someone saw it and looked into it. You couldn't ask for better colors in my opinion. While Indian Ceramic might be described as Pink, I personally see quite a bit of red tint in that pink on a nice car.
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I am very familiar with the one that John Parker bought. I have a photo of it parked in his yard. However, unless sunlight turned the colors as the car aged the exterior was white and the interior was a mild pink. Larry Baker has the upper rear fender and tail light, confirming white, and I have 3 parts which have the interior color on them.
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Maybe the car was repainted. The story is that the one I am identifying was white with pink interior and pleated leather interior, and given to Jayne Mansfield. The photo confirms white, and the parts I have confirm pink interior.
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The color of the dash is what is on the parts that I have.
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Didn't Henry Kaiser also own a 1955 Kaiser with an overhead valve engine? Is that car still around? Since there were two of these cars built for Mr and Mrs Kaiser why couldn't this one be the one that was given to Jane Mansfield? Food for thought!
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The HJK car I know of with an OHV 6 was a 1951 done up as a Kaiser Dragon. The engine was a prototype and it was used as a test car to see if performance and fuel consumption made it a good replacement for the flathead 226. Overall results and reliabilitiy suggested the existing engine configuration would be better for use than tooling up this motor. At one time there was still a lot of documentation with the car to establish its history.
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As so not to hijack this For Sale post, the car Gordie is asking about and Jack is mentioning was discussed in this thread:
http://kfclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,3978.msg17369.html#msg17369
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Gordie, the colors are wrong for it to be the one which he gave Jayne Mansfield...and the car he gave her, that John Parker parted out had...tags. I have them.
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I got a little more info
hope this helps
The price is $6,500.00 OBO
Just trying to help the owner out, don't shoot the messenger.
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Who do we email - to look at the car..
What was the location of the car?
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I got a little more info
hope this helps
The price is $6,500.00 OBO
Just trying to help the owner out, don't shoot the messenger.
Thank you, it is a big help and I don't think anyone here will negatively comment about your help. Price is what the seller wants. In the grand scheme of things, it's not too far off. It just depends on what the seller and buyer want to do with the car. As I mentioned earlier, we are talking about 1 of 226 4 door Manhattans made in 1955. These rarely come up for sale in any condition. If you add to that, the provenance of the car, then it has value to the KFOCI crowd.
This is a dwindling community and I know of no one restoring a car. I am sure a few of us are, but very few. Most of us are content to maintain and drive what we have. The KF community is not unique in this regard. I am active on a couple of other forums - we all like to see these cars located and presented - but few of them change hands.
Years ago I was a Packard Club member in addition to many other clubs. I desperately wanted a 1956 Packard 400 or similar. As most of you know, 1956 was the last true year for Packard. I read a critical book - "The Rise and Fall of the Packard Motor Car Company." It was a great book and I regret sending it to Half Price.
In it, the author painted a picture of the last days of Packard with life long assembly workers despondent over the demise of the company, wandering aimlessly. The critical papers being dumped in dumpsters. Executives caring less, not knowing what to do. I wanted one of those cars, the last - and to be fair I think 1956 Packards were still produced in the thousands, just not 5 digits thousands. The 56's were the last and always will be so owning one would give a person a sense of owning history, and preserving it.
I know I am hijacking the thread a bit but this is the impression I get of the few assembled 55 Kaisers. Wow, 226 plus a few 2 door models. I believe they were assembled in Indiana on memory. But I imagine some manager making sure enough workers were around to make them from leftover parts. The workers say "sure". Then - a line supervisor gets the S.O. for the 2 HJK cars. The workers note the tags and Indian Ceramic colors and the fact they are together - and are making them. They get completed, test driven and shipped off.
YOU could own one of these. To me, this is just as impressive as that "last one off the assembly line" 55 that has been advertised for years in the $10,000 to $15,000 range. Seems like a bargain to me at $6500.
I just love halo cars - the special ones that pop up from time to time. Thanks again for posting.
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darrin502...Thank You. The car s absolutely beautiful and priced right. Wish I was able to grab it immediately.
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Question: if the cars were painted Palm Beach ivory why does every part of the exterior visible and the fire wall look...White?
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****To help clarify the misconception that the car John Parker owned had a pink leather interior rather than Indian Ceramic****
Parts from the 2nd car in question (John Parker) confirms it was indeed Indian Ceramic and was one of two built for Mr. and Mrs. Henry J Kaiser. While the paint did fade the Indian Ceramic paint and appeared to be pink where it was exposed to the ultra violet rays from the sun it is also clear that where the paint was not exposed to the sun it is Indian Ceramic. Many of the parts from the car John Parker scrapped have been acquired over the years and will be included with the car for sale.
Hopefully this proof can lay to rest the pink vs. Indian Ceramic interior questions that has been debated over the years.
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I have one more picture.
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Who has all of those parts? I have the tags which were never exposed to sunlight and they are...pink. When I figure out how to send a photo of them I will.
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Is that a photo of the glove box door and steering wheel which Rudy Phillips has?
rudy phillips <rudyskfparts@sbcglobal.net>
To:
brmiller@bellsouth.net
Feb 16, 2016 at 9:01 PM
I'll sell all the parts I have from the car. How much are you willing to pay for the following parts:
Arm rest
Steering wheel
Glove box door
Sun visors
Have other parts but will need to look around as that's been at least 30 years ago since he parted that car out.
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I just now noticed the last photo of the visors and arm rests. That completes the ls of parts that Rudy Phillips says he has.
Larry Baker says that he has the upper fender and tail light/safety glow part, and that the color of the fender is...white...as is the color of the 55 for sale.
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These are the plates from the 55 K which John Parker had:
KAISER
large plate 542 1 463 5322
small plate 5421 4588
KAISER
large plate 542 1 463 5322
small plate 5421 4632
2nd small plate 51367 5073
I spoke with June Parker after John passed and she said that the car was white with pink interior.
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...but...I had been told by someone early on that the interior was Indian Ceramic...and...the 57 Lincoln that belonged to Jayne Mansfield was a color very similar to Indian ceramic (exterior color).
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Question: if the cars were painted Palm Beach ivory why does every part of the exterior visible and the fire wall look...White?
Palm Beach ivory "should be" White as the core base color, in other words, Palm Beach ivory is white.
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Well, actually...NO. I owned a 1954 K in 1983. The body was Palm Beach Ivory and it is about 6-7 shades away from white. Fading had not turned it even close to white since 1954.
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I guess there is no interest here in the car that started the thread.
Lee
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Very interested . Just don't have the money.
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How about a reasonable offer it did say OBO.
The car is unique.
Thanks
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I'd like to own the car but the cost to transport across country coupled with the initial purchase means I'll have to enjoy it in pictures only. The car needs to be saved and restored but it will take someone inspired to do so, along with the bank account to support that inspiration.
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Thanks ALL
Lee
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Thanks for posting it Lee. I am sure that many of us are thinking hard about it.
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I didn't notice where it is located. Did I miss it?
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JIM or anyone
What about free delivery?
Lee
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Joe Frazer once offered his personal car to someone in our club and I heard that after not getting a reply from us he gave the car to a different car club. Where is that '51 Frazer? That is a pair of cars that should be in the same garage!
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Free delivery is great but I have 2 real issues as most of us have - no space and I think the price is still too high for what needs to be done. I write this seeing your awesome collection of cars. I am not in the buyers pool. If I bought this rare Kaiser, I would buy 1-2 more and sell all the Buicks and just go KF. But that would mean yet another complete change out and direction in my hobby experience.
It would be interesting to see what this car might bring on ebay, with an explanation of it's history.
The KF buying crowd is the strangest I have seen. I don't mean that in a bad way. I would think this car could be discretely offered within club circles and easily change hands. Not entirely unrelated, I own 2 rare Buick Reattas neither of which there is any interest in. One is Maui Blue with a tan interior in the last year of production - and is documanted 1 of 1. It was headed to the crusher and no one within the Reatta collecting community wanted it, they were OK letting it get crushed, so I bought it.
I too wonder where Joe's 51 Frazer is. Maybe lost to the ages.
This car (the 55 Kaiser) is very significant but I know where I can get a 53 Dragon for $1100, and a 48 Frazer with rare keather interior for $1000 and so on. So, that is part of the reason I think $6500 is a bit steep. A person needs to yank the small block, sell it, and find a date coded 54 engine and supercharger. As soon as someone knows you want it, the price would double.
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Location? I have have interest and cash, but I've never made an offer on a car without seeing it in person. Assuming it is actually feasible to see in person.
Marc in Indy
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Does anyone know WHERE this car is?
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Contact him by PM, would be my guess.
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I will find out for you.
Lee
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The owner will call you PM me with your phone number.
Thanks
Lee
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No offense, but if someone can't even state the city & state of the vehicle it sounds kind of fishy.
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The photo shows a car with California black plates on it.
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No offense, but if someone can't even state the city & state of the vehicle it sounds kind of fishy.
I'm not a potential buyer but I've been thinking "cagey" simply on the seller not providing a phone number. City & state brings it up to a whole other level.
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Leedeserves the benefit of any doubt. This is perhaps the rarest and most interesting Kaiser left to restore. No one had to offer it. Normally I would agree with Mark and others if it was a random Craigslist seller. But this seller is using Lee’s help to market the car because he wants to stay anonymous.
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No slight was being directed toward Lee at all, as he put it earlier, he's just "the messenger" and is trying to do a good thing here.
I've got a really good buddy with several nice collectable vehicles he wants to sell that is extremely cagey with his listings, and rarely completes a sale...…………….so I've seen this before, up close, several times.
PM me for the sellers number would work for me, PM me your number and the seller will call you would be the last message I would bother reading. Once again, Lee's just caught in the middle here with what appears to be a situation a bit out of the norm. Someone with a persistent desire for this car may land a really neat piece of history.
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I've PM'd my phone number as requested..to be shared with the owner. Waiting for the owner to call.
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Gave it to the owner should call you soon
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This is no bogus the owner wants to sell the car he will contact you. I am just trying to help I know the owner and he asked me to post this. I have done all I can. It is up to the owner now. The owner said he will take it from here. Thank you all.
Lee
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This is no bogus the owner wants to sell the car he will contact you. I am just trying to help I know the owner and he asked me to post this. I have done all I can. It is up to the owner now. The owner said he will take it from here. Thank you all.
Lee
Kudos to you Lee for trying to steer this piece of history to a club member. If I were in your place but with my pal, it would drive me bonkers :o
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darrin502, is there some sort of Update on this?
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I can update the sale of my buddy's Packard. After 3 yrs off & on of his similar sales methods, he finally just sold it this spring.
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Trying to find out more about it...to preserve it. Only one photo...???
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Phone contact has been made. Thanks for the help.
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Phone contact has been made. Thanks for the help.
Any additional details you can add about this car? I know the seller wants to remain a mystery but anything new? I just can't meet that price. I did sell a couple of cars.
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He wouldn't say much at all, but I have made a promise to purchase.
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Darrin502, please have owner contact me. I'm looking for his telephone number...may have misplaced it. Thank you.
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I thought you bought the car! I reached out to Lee yesterday.
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K. Not yet...cancer surgery and complicated recovery has caused a delay.
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Lee has not responded to my PM. I'll stand down and move on to other cars. For me it's more about the provenance of that car as I am not a 54 front end restyle fan. I love the colors though, returning it to the correct Ivory and Indian Ceramic.
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Sorry I thought I did respond to your PM.
The car is owned by Rudy Phillips so if you need any additional information please contact him.
I was just trying to help I am now officially out of this.
Thanks
Lee
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Oh, O.K., Thanks.
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Rudy, I'm still interested. Will be contacting you soon.
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Rudy, I'm still interested. Will be contacting you soon.
Rudy? Rudy Phillips is not on this forum.
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Does anyone happen to have Rudy's telephone number...and will share it?
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He is Still in Club Roster.
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Rudy's phone number is 760 789 3608 email rudyskfparts@sbcglobal.net
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Thank you, Gordie. I had used the "Search" at the top and found both.
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Carpenter:
Did you end up buying this car? How does it appear in your garage?
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I've recently had several health issues that caused loss of a good financial basis, so No, I haven't bought that car Just called the telephone number listed here as that of Rudy, but it is not a working number Anyone have an update? He mentioned crushing it if no one purchased and I am doing what I can to prevent that from happening. Would be a sad day to see that happen.
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I do have an update. It was not Rudy's car. He was trying to save it. He lost contact with the seller so its whereabouts are again unknown.
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If you or anyone has information about this car...please let me know.
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It's gone. Rudy is also downsizing. Like me, he is demoralized by the lack of interest by club members in the historical artifacts of the club. The club is hemorrhaging members and those members are generally dumping cars. Rudy lost the contact information for the owner. We all backed off the pursuit because you stated you had an agreement to purchase. That is why I assumed it was in your garage and I wanted to know more about it. Of course, health trumps old cars but an update would have been nice. Especially with then free delivery.
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Sorry that my communication caused a misunderstanding. Rudy said that the car was in Colorado, so maybe someone there can give us information on the car.
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Colorado would have been awesome because I'm in Iowa. Rudy said the car was o. Cl for 2 years but I never saw it in any searches
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Darrin502, Do you have any current information on this car?
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Darrin502, Do you have any current information on this car?
Contact Larry Barker in AZ. If anyone will know it will be Larry.
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Thank you. Will need contact information.
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Check your member list. Or most bulletins.
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Thank you. Will need contact information.
480.843.8110 is his cell I believe.
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Thank you.
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What did Larry say? Does he know where the car is?
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Not yet. He is checking.