Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Terry T on May 26, 2011, 08:12:01 AM
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Any Darrin owners going to the National?
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Only in my dreams!
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The information I have is at least a couple of weeks old, but I understand that turn out is well below expectations. However, it is not unusual for 50% or more of registrations to a KFOCI function to come in during the 30 days before the event so this might not be a cause for concern.
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Registrations have picked up and the crowd should be near par of most nationals. The car count...owing to pricey fuel...will probably be down.
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I had planned to put on a large display of K-F collectibles, hood ornaments, accesories, sales promotional items, literature, factory photos, an ad collection, wall posters etc. but have now been told after a year of no communication that they only have room for two tables instead of the six or so that I had asked for so I have decided to save my stuff for a later convention. It will be a fun convention and I am getting my low mileage '51 Kaiser club coupe cleaned up and ready after years of storage. I hope to see you all there and the weather is great!
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Gordie... They told me I could have two tables, but from here, I really don't want to drag stuff 1000+ miles to display. Why don't you use those two also and rotate your display day to day. I was thinking I would bring a 3 X 4 foot frame and change my display daily but really don't need a table. My thoughts.
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Gordie, Jim - Think about what experience you have previously with Host Hotels. Myself I have seen hotels promise a LOT and then pretend to have never to have said such a thing. Perhaps the hotel at San Diego wanted $100 a table setup fee with no promise of security. After all they have ComicCon and a lot of Naval reunion conventions there so they probably figure they can p*ss on your leg and charge for that as well.
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Hi guys, my problem is not with the hotel but the group hosting the meet. I have had my email and phone calls un-answered and have been out of the planning of this meet completely. It is too much work and too risky to bring all of the stuff to the meet when there is no interest from the meet hosts. I've been collecting Kaiser Frazer memorabilia for years and they do not want to provide space for displaying it and they have no idea what I was going to bring. It's better off in my home with no risk of loss for now. The fun of having these items is sharing it with other K-F collectors and I hope to do that somehow in the near future.
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I am still planning to drive my car from here 1200+ miles one way. The cost of this little outing is going to be tremendous, but being with other enthusiasts and seeing a different area of the country is worth it to us.
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The idea of holding conventions around the country is to reach as many members as possible and give those nearby a chance attend a national meet. Part of that includes bringing a car or parts or display material. All that makes the show a show. So, please do bring anything KF or Willys. I will be at the meet and would love to see a few bits and pieces from someone else's collection. I know what kind of stuff I have and am tired of looking at it...I want to see someone else's treasures for a change!!
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I will be driving my unrestored '51 Henry J from near Detroit, thru Chicago then onto Rt. 66 all the way to California!!
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The idea of holding conventions around the country is to reach as many members as possible and give those nearby a chance attend a national meet.
Same ol, same ol. The Buick Club isn't much different. The National meet typically is bid out to chapters with regional support. Recently, there has been little to no interest in holding one due to the hard work behind it. This year it's in Danvers, Mass. In 2012, Charlotte, NC. So, some western state members groused about 2 years in a row on east coast.
I worked up some strategies for Springfield, Missouri and the Provo, Utah area for next 2 years. I sent detailed letters to the regions and chapters closest and explained this was only to gauge interest. No response. But still, it's important to criss cross the country and reach member groups and then maybe some folks would join and maintain membership knowing it was going to "come back around".
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Is anyone from the East Coast going to drive their car to the national? If so what route
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Roadmaster - I believe Springfield, MO to be a great place for a car national meet. Indeed, the SDC is returning there for a 3rd time. Now while it is nice to recognize the facilities, you need people on the ground to organize it. And those people have to live there or at least be close. How many people are we talking about? It depends on the expected size of the crowd and the dedication of the workers. I have experienced car meets where too many people were involved in planning.
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National Meet Recalled: We were 3 KFOCI members who went to the National at the Queen Mary. After the meet ended, we laid over a couple of days in order to visit the SDC National Meet in Las Vegas. We ran into at least 3 other KF members who did the same thing.
Well the SDC Meet was at the Riviera Hotel. The Hotel charged $50 for an urn of coffee and had hefty set up fees for tables, so the hospitality was limited. There was an indoor swap meet in a very large meeting room - I would guess the space fees were significant. Few SDC members stayed at the Riviera because there were only a few rooms set aside for the "special" rate. Once you walked outside a special SDC room you were diluted with the regular gambling crowd. It taught me a lot about what I didn't want to see at a car meet.
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The SDC had a National in Mass back in the 90's. It wasn't well attended. That may be a state that should be avoided as a potential site.
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Massachusetts - BCA (Buick Club of America) has had 2 Nationals in Danvers, and it wasn't meant to be a nod to KFOCI, but just an observation that the next 2 BCA Nationals are probably too "eastern" and there has been some grumbling BUT no one else (no other chapter or region) stepped up for 2012 so Charlotte got it. The Charlotte NC bid was a good one though.
Some things to consider: Charlotte and our last National in Ames, Iowa - leaned heavily on the local tourism boards and for Charlotte they are handling a large chunk of the planning and coordinating.
I am new to the KFOCI so am totally unfamiliar with how National meet locations are decided upon but I have done advance planning for Springfield, Missouri and Provo, Utah and would be glad to help with a Springfield MO KFOCI National meet.
I thought about Springfield Missouri because it is so centrally located, on major highways, close to Buick (and I would think KF) owner numbers in Texas, Oklahoma, Missouri and so on and prices are moderate. Yea, who cares about a fancy motel. I ran an AACA "Poll" about what members want at their National meet and host hotel "luxury" was not a priority. Getting together with friends and the cars were #1.
I am not a BCA National veteran (as a volunteer/coordinator) but did help out this past year because it was 15 miles away in Ames, Iowa. I am here to help with the KFOCI for national meet planning and coordination but don't want to seem like an intruder as a new comer to the club.
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You want to put on a KF National? You start by going to a KF National and spending more than just a day. You try to learn about every function that is held over the 6 days (Sunday evening through Friday morning). When you think you have a plan, talk to your Regional Manager and Divisional Director.
We had several groups of members in the Eastern and Midwest Divisions who had put on a number National Meets but unfortunately we have lost many of them.
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It is fair to presume that many old car owners--regardless of club--that cater to pre 1955 automobiles will NOT drive their vehicles (or trailer them) clear across the 48 United States to attend a National Convention. The requirement of rotating the KFOCI meet between Eastern, Midwest and Western divisions is in the club's "working papers" and as such is a done deal. It is to the credit of the Eastern Division that on more than one occasion over the years, they have set up Nationals at the far edges of their "turf", including the 2012 National in Tennessee...they could have just as easily gone to places like Bangor Maine, Bennnington Vermont (no slight intended to the people at Hemmings) or Key West, Florida instead.
The problem today with that is the price of travel...gasoline, air fares, on-the-road meals and accomidations, etc. Perhaps the rotation should reflect location for travel and who is willing to host.
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Don't forget the Western Division have put on Nationals at the edge of their 'turf' as well - Ouray, Golden, and Albuquerque.
You don't want to have a big meet in the same general area repeatedly because you are asking one group of people to do a big job over and over again. Their enthusiasm will melt away.
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DON'T BRING UP THE OURAY COLORADO MEET!
The information supplied to (and printed in) the Monthly Bulletin at the time informed Kaiser owners with automatic transmissions they could not take certain roads to the meet because some of the hills would cause operating problems with the gearbox. People were also informed that certain main roads in the Ouray area could not be driven at night due to possibility of fog settling in suddenly. Also, there was no main meet hotel...the people attending were scattered among rooming houses, small motels and just about anyplace one could find a room. Not very professional in my opinion!
I also disagree most strongly with being a "regular" at National Conventions is a requirement to host a meet. Usually less than 20% of the total membership attend the National so you are shutting out the vast majority of the members including those who may be interested in doing something in their respective areas.
How does a site get selected? As the man from the Buick club notes it goes where people want to do the work to set one up.
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Ouray was a great meet, even with the downpour during the judging, even with the separate hotels and rooming houses. I didn't travel anywhere other than where the club was at the time, so the roads were not a problem. Old Toby (my Willys Aero) made it over Monarch Pass (11,000 feet above sea level) with a little bit of breathing trouble, but then I was finding my breath a little short as well.
I think complaining about a meet is a waste of time. The hosts go thru all the trouble of setting up the meet for free and usually spend quite a bit of their spare time on it. Not very professional because they are not professionals. They do the best they can with whatever they have to work with. I've been to something like 8 Nationals over the years and have had a good time at each one. Some were more fun or memorable than others, but all were a good time. Just have your mindset that you'll be seeing plenty of your favorite cars and people and it'll all be fine.
Jack has it right though, like all the clubs I know of, whoever wants to volunteer to host a meet is the next host.
And speaking of that 20% or so that show up to the Nationals, that's a good reason to change the voting from those present at the business meeting to a mail-in vote. If I cannot attend a National Meet, I cannot vote on any of the issues. As a member of the club, shouldn't I have that right?
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Quote from "our Historian"
DON'T BRING UP THE OURAY COLORADO MEET!
The information supplied to (and printed in) the Monthly Bulletin at the time informed Kaiser owners with automatic transmissions they could not take certain roads to the meet because some of the hills would cause operating problems with the gearbox. People were also informed that certain main roads in the Ouray area could not be driven at night due to possibility of fog settling in suddenly. Also, there was no main meet hotel...the people attending were scattered among rooming houses, small motels and just about anyplace one could find a room. Not very professional in my opinion!
#1--I recommended the route to Ouray avoiding I70 over the divide thru the tunnel as very difficult for ALL Kaisers. This was based on my ownership of Kaisers and residency in Colorado---Not just with Automatic Transmissions, Not problems with the gearbox, just a dam long hard pull at very high elevation and low horsepower.
#2--I don't know where you got the information about fog, it's non existent with humidity at 5 to 20% in this area (and the whole state).
#3 There was a "Headquarters Motel", all people were advised that it would accommodate only a certain amount of K-F owners, a list of many other motels in town were listed with phone numbers, plenty available for everyone, all within short walking distance of any place in town. all with competitive prices.
NO derogatory comments were ever received regarding accommodations, food, walking thru town, and in general the meet in it's entirety.
That was the first car show ever held in Ouray--Guess what--The Corvair club had their national meet in Ouray the following year! I have had many requests since for another meet there from the members that attended-1985-
That is my .06c worth
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As I recall the OURAY meet was the one that gave out the large Buffalo Trophies. I saw them in an old Quarterly. I was so disappointed when I found out that they were not given out at all KFOCI Nationals. I so wanted one. :-*
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I thought the Ouray meet was super. I had my first "dummy" issue of the Quarterly with me to show to the officers etc. I recall we had the "board" meeting in a motel room with everyone sitting on beds etc. Of course in those days the board was not really official. I recall Gil Courtain getting me from the parking lot and telling me I was on the board since I was the Quarterly editor and we were about to meet.
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Trust me, it's time to get over the need for experience and perfection in National meets. Jack, I am a Buick guy but I am a KFOCI member and plan to stay one. I really like the monthly newsletters and can't want for the quarterly magazine.
Yes, experience and going to a National helps. I have been to 5 Buick Nationals and they are all much larger I am sure then a KFOCI National. there are problems in all Nationals. But, initiative and just digging in is better then saying you or your chapter don't have the experience. The BCA almost did not have a National in 2009 and 2010, because no chapters or regions wanted to step up.
Hint: Lean on the selected city's Tourism infrastructure.
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I don't intend to confuse the source of various comments on the Ouray National as to who said what.
I refer back to the post of June 01, 2011, 09:51:47 PM
Ouray was not just off an exit on a midwest interstate highway. No matter which direction you were coming from, you did have to drive a significant distance on 2 lane roads with some grades that were uncomfortable to flatlanders.
The concern about making over the passes was real because sea level jetted cars (and Olds diesels as well) lost a lot of power at those altitudes. I can bore you with a story that combines those elements.
I think the largest motel had only 40 rooms and the rest had more like 15 to 20. As I recall the "headquarters" motel changed prior to the start, but it really didn't make any difference because the motels didn't have any meeting facilities so those functions were held at the town hall/fire station. It was a real resort town and the KFOCI had essentially booked the whole town. The final headquarters motel had a natural hot springs tub in the back.
Members could walk around the whole town - once you were there, you didn't need to move your car until judging day. There is a distinct boost from having your meet occupy the the majority of a hotel or in this instance, a whole town. You get more and better interest from the merchants which results in a better experience.
The bad part for the younger people was there wasn't any fast food establishments at all. If you wanted a meal, you had to go to a cafe. No Walmarts in either direction.
The bad part for the older guys was there was only 1 grocery store which was more like a convience store. Real Name Brand Beer was expensive and the cheap alternative was "Iron City" which we quickly renamed "Iron Lung."
Ouray was charming and memorable. I am proud to say I was there, and ashamed I did not participate in the steak dinner banquet at the city hall. I doubt our members now would appreciate the unique setting so I would have to say, "Don't do it again."
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Mountain Passes and Automatics: There were 3 of us that went to Ouray: Ben Walker, My brother Larry and Myself. Ben & I were in his 54 E Spl with a Chevy 327/3speed while my brother was in a his 52 Manhattan with a Chevy 283/PowerGlide. He did have trouble going over the passes because he was too dumb to manually shift the trans into low range.
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Jack - Where was it said that being a regular participant at the KF National was a requirement prior to making a bid to host one?
It does make sense to attend one to see what is required before making a committment.
It may be possible for 1 member to put on a KF National without asking help from nearby members, but I would think that member would have to have a particularly understanding spouse and children and a few guilible friends.
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It is a good idea to attend a National meet to help in planning and presentation for a future National meet. Just not absolute.
Question: How many cars attend a KFOCI National Meet and how many PEOPLE (with or wothout cars) attend a KFOCI National meet?
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Roadmaster - That is where it is good to talk to your Division Director and your Regional Manager. You could have a lot of cars - but for only 2 days. You could have a lot of members - but just not at the host motel. You could have a lot of members, but not see them during the day because they are out sightseeing. One gauge is the number of people that show up for the Banquet.
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To be more specific, a good number at the banquet is around 300 or fractionally more than 2 tickets for each convention registration. If you have an overpriced banquet or if it is in a difficult location, you get a lesser turnout.
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300 is a great banquet number. 150 cars for a "small" club like KFOCI is a great number. I asked my Buick friends for numbers for 2008-2010 and basically I need to do some more digging but for Batavia, New York in 2005, the number of cars was 400-500. But I don't think we had 800 to 1000 in the banquet.
The Buick banquet is not everyone's favorite event. It can get long and tedious, to some. Many folks skip it that don't have a judged car.
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I think 150 registrants means something different than 150 cars. I can't recall a meet where there was actually that many present.
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Well, no 150 cars, no. I have never owned a restored car that I have driven to a National meet or car show. I have attended all Nationals sans car. Went to 1 banquet.
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If you have a big car show, the ratio of people at the banquet to number of cars displayed goes down. I have been to a number of SDC National Meets and NEVER went to a banquet. I have been to 25 KFOCI Nationals and missed only 3 banquets.
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Banquet ticket sales CAN NOT be equated to either registrations or cars. The experience Barbara and I had hosting Midwest Division meets is that there are some people (not great numbers) who know they will not arrive until the afternoon of the banquet and do not register or bring a car. Other times couples come with other people and these groups sometimes do not bring cars. Each of these people in the group usually buy a ticket so you could sell 4 meals with only 1 car (or no old car) registered. When we hosted the meets in Cave City average was around 50 registrations, 35 or so cars and 130 people for the banquet. Considering Cave City KY is not near great concentrations of members (Chigago Area, Northern Indiana, Pennsylvania, etc) this was a very good turn out.
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Exactly - Banquet tickets can not be equated to the number of cars promised to show up or actually end up being there.
However, I believe banquet tickets can be linked to the number of registrations. After all, you should have to register in conjunction with buying a banquet ticket. Notice I did not say the number of people that show up with KF cars.
I have attended several Nationals where a lot of former members and some people with KF cars who didn't intend to join the KFOCI showed up.
It take real Chutzpah to show up during judging and insist on having your car judged even though you aren't registered and you aren't a current member of the Club - but I have experienced this. The people who mail in registrations are the people you can count on being there. The number of people who wander in during the meet and pay for a registration are a bonus.
There is small category of members who tell you they will be there but do not pay in advance. That makes the host want to put out their hair. About 50% of these people actually turn up.
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Remember, 4 people in 1 car = 4 banquet tickets but only 1 registration as a rule.
2 people in 1 car = 2 banquet tickets but only 1 registration as a rule.
That's why it's not good to equate banquet tickets to registrations because you may have problems averaging them out. Why not equate the number of rooms to number of registrations and number of cars showing up?
Many times there is no solid way to match registrations with banquet tickets. Oh, don't forget that we have some people (like Barbara and I) who of late have not taken a K-F product to a meet but registered anyway.