Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Aeroman on July 16, 2013, 07:50:40 PM
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I believe Champion J-8's are the correct plug for our cars, although they are no longer available. Are J8C's a correct replacement? They are available at O'Reilly Auto Parts in the lawnmower section.
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I would like to know where you have found this documentation for Champion. I can only find Auto lite in the service bulletins and manuals.
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Kaiser and Frazer cars were factory equipped with Auto-Lite and ONLY Auto-Lite. Henry J and Darrin engines used Champion J-8 as that's what Willys supplied engines with. Allstates used the Sears Allstate-branded plugs. Willys products used Champion; the plug type may vary over the years.
The Champion J-8 nonsense for the 226 as in Kaiser or Frazer cars started back when Fred Walker was Chief Judge and major parts vendor/restoration shop owner. He could get Champion plugs at wholesale and sold them retail to club members, decreeing that these were the "correct" plugs for all K-F products. in truth, the Heat Range on the J-8 is notably higher than the A-5's used on all Frazers and Kaisers into the 1951 model year, and slightly higher than the A-7 that K-F switched to during 1951 Kaiser production. Higher Heat Ranges makes your engine run to the higher side of operational range and makes the car more prone to vapor lock (especially with today's gas) as a result. I was at the National Convention when Fred made the announcement on acceptibility AND that he was selling them so you could get the right spark plug from him.
Please consult your factory Service Manual or Service Standards books for your make/year automobile to get correct plugs. While not factory, AC still makes a plug in the A-5 heat range suitable for use in the 226.
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Back to Rick's original question........ Are the Champion J8C's correct replacement?
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I have found that depends on the Judge you receive. Until the club has written standards we won't know. There is no factory documentation that Champion was ever used on the 226 engine. If you don't care about judging, the J-8c work great.
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If you use the J8C plugs that I've seen at Wal-Mart and other places, it should look interesting on a motor; they are squat little things rather than the traditional type. I would suggest that you try AC 44 or 45 Types. They work in the same heat range. Go with the plain 44 or 45 not the 45 XL series or other sub-types. They worked in 1950's Chevrolet models.
Again, consult your factory Shop Manual or Service Standards booklet for correct spark plugs in any old car.
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if you are going to the National, there are several vendors that have NOS Auto lite A-7s and Champion J-8s.
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The heat reffered to is the temp at the tip of the plug while operating. It doesnt make a hotter spark nor a hotter engine. Too hot a plug can cause preignition and piston damage,too cold of a plug will cause fouling ect. If you get the right heat range any brand will make it run. As to judging thats above my pay grade.
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J8C plugs are of normal size, it's the CJ8 plugs that are noticeably smaller than the others. The latter is for use in 2 stroke outdoor power equipment.
Right now, Autolite A5 and A7 as well as Champion J8 and J8C are all accepted in KFOCI judging. That, of course, is subject to change.
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I have no documentation about J8's on Kaisers or Frazers. I just remember that they were acceptable back in Fred Walker days. I do know that J8's were factory correct for Aeros based on the Willys Service Standards book. That is the only one I can personally authenticate.
Now, back to my question, can J8C's be used as a replacement for J8's?
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Yes, the only difference is that J8C plugs use a copper core. Otherwise, they directly interchange with their cousin, the J8.
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If you want to be original, here's what works according to the FACTORY SERVICE MANUALS
All Frazers - Auto-Lite A-5
Kaisers - 1947 into 1951 model year - Auto-Lite A-5
Kaisers - later 1951 models - 1955 - Auto-Lite A-7
All Henry J - Champion J8 (as supplied from Willys-Overland)
Kaiser-Darrin Sports Cars - Champion J8
Willys Vehicles 1946 into 1950's - Champion J8
According to Kaiser-Frazer Service Bulletin #302 dated August 31, 1951 "Under extreme driving conditions such as sustained high speeds, the Auto-Lite A-7 Spark Plug may be too hot, in which case it is recommended that the Auto-Lite A-5 Spark Plug, Part Number 201230 be used in place of the A-7". Another part of the same bulletin "While the Auto-Lite A-5 Spare Plug has a satisfactory heat range for more areas, it has been established that this heat range is particularly suitable for cars with over 5,000 miles of service". Lastly, "Dealers are urged to refrain from removing Auto-Lite A-5 Spark Plugs from new cars in favor of the Auto-Lite A-7 heat range unless it is established that satisfactory performance cannot be achieved without the use of a hotter Auto-Lite Spark Plug. Present A-5 Spark Plugs now in service should be properly cleaned, regapped and re-installed as an established service practice".
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This list for spark plugs should be given to our chief Judge to pass out to all judges. They seem to be very confused on this list.