Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Forum
General Category => Kaiser Forum => Topic started by: JoeKeys2010 on September 17, 2013, 09:51:37 AM
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I need to replace the tires on my 1949 Kaiser. It currently has trailer tiers on it. I have a shop manual that suggests 7.10 X 15 and which I think is similar in size to a 215 75 r15. Does anyone have a suggestion on radial vs bias ply tires, white wall vs black wall? I would like the car to ride well and handle as good as possible so if radial preform better I would rather go with them even though they were not original equipment.
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A radial is better in every way.
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Radial tires on my '65 Mustang really make it handle poorly and after a few years my expensive Michelins lost their tread and did extensive damage to my fender. Radials are good on newer cars and daily drivers but I will never again put them on a collector car that doesn't get driven much. Proper bias ply tires with correct wide whitewalls are readily available for our cars and you never have to worry as to when the tread is going to come off at speed.
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I had radials on my 54 Willys Aero and it handled very poorly. Steering the car required alot more effort and the ride wasn't much better than with bias ply tires. I sold the car to a friend and the first thing he did was to swap to bias ply tires. I drove the car and the difference was amazing.
If you do go with radials, you might want to use a 205/75x15 tire. 215's may rub the rear inner fenders.
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If you go to radials you will need to talk to someone who already did the switch successfully. Steering and suspension need significant readjustment because of the different characteristics between radials and the older bias ply types.
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My random thoughts on this topic:
My experience with radials from Coker Tire has been entirely positive. The car doesn't track every grove and crack in the road, and they ride just fine. I also had the car aligned at the same time which you should do what ever tires you end up getting.
New bias-ply tires probably work just fine also. I've never had new ones, I've only driven on old ones, and even old radials don't drive very well, in my experience.
As far as whitewall versus blackwall, that comes down to esthetics. What do YOU like? They both were available for cars back when our cars were new, so you can use either one, if you want to keep it all original.
I prefer the driving characteristics of Radials myself, and I have to DRIVE my car where ever I take it, and I take it on many trips. If you trailer it, then it doesn't matter.
Bias-ply's are cheaper and more original, too.
Hope this helps!
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I had bias ply on my 51 Kaiser since I restored it in 1989. Never had single issue with the bias ply. I was concerned about surface rust on 1 of the wheels. In 2009 I replaced the bias ply after 20 years. Car is usually used just around town. In 2009 I bought 4 new rims from the Wheelsmith in Santa Ana, CA. I have 4 WW radial tires now. Car is very nice to drive and does not catch every crack in the road.
The Henry J we just finished has 4 new bias ply that it had when we bought car. They catch every crack in the road.
Big cars I recommend Coker wide White radials, Henry J I think I would stay with bias ply.
Here is my 51 with Radials.
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When you say "finds every crack in the road" what exactly do you mean. I have really bad trailer tires on mine and as you may expect the ride is not as good as it should be. However the car dives good and handles ok but is no good at speeds over 40 and it will jerk around a bit if I hit a spot in the road. Any tire would improve but it sounds like bias tires are the way to go. My rims are in good shape and once I get them off ill blast and paint them.
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I changed out my bias to radials on my Henry J and enjoy the R&H (ride and handling).
I drove on bias for 3 years then changed before I drove to LA on Route 66.
I opted for Diamonback radials after looking online about complaints on Coker radials of smaller sizes.
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When I say catching every crack on the road, I find that you really need to hold the steering wheel. The tires tend to track on road grooves and cracks in the road. Think you are experiencing the same thing with the tires you have now. You will not have that with radial tires.
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I understand and agree about catching cracks. I think I am after a set of white walls and understand they come i either construction. I have a 64 Ford with radials on it and it drives and handles like a dream although the steering is not as smooth as the Kaiser. The Ford has a 427 so it does have weight. If the Kaiser handled as good as the Ford does with radial tires I would be satisfied. Anything would be an improvement over what I have. Will there be any issues with the valve stem size if I go to radials?
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Stems come in different lengths, just make sure they good with the hubcaps or get valve extenders
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If I go with bias ply the correct size would be 7.10 x 15? And Goodyear if I want to stay original? If radial 215 75 15?
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Ok so I've decided to do with a bias ply tire. I'm going to install a Goodyear 7.10 x 15. From what I can tell that is what would have come one the car when new. Correct?
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JOEKEYS2010, I AM RUNNING 235-R15 75s on my 54 Manhattan and on my 53 Dragon with wide w/w but am using 1980,s Ford wheels. no fender rubbing and tracks well at 70mph its the most comfortable ride I have ever had on a long trip and NO fighting the ridges/ grooves in the road from heavy trucks.
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The tires you have chosen are correct. They were optional I think on our cars, but they are correct.
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I assume the rims should be blasted and painted the color of the car (Caribbean coral) to be correct or will black do? I'm trying to get it as close to the way it was when it was new as possible. I have chrome rings and hubcaps so only a small part of the rim shows.
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Joe Frazer - one of the reasons your Aero was not so good with radials is because they needed to be undersized to clear the tie rod ends up front. I've had large VW radials on Old Toby for many years and was never really pleased with the ride like I thought I would be. It wasn't horrible, just wasn't as good as I expected. Next set will be Goodrich Silvertowns. I've had both Silvertowns and Firestones on the car over the years and liked the Goodriches just a hair better than the 'Stones. They wore a little better, too. Best part is that I can drive to Coker Tire in Chattanooga, buy the tires and see the museum in the same day.
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if you are going for judging....... the wheels need to be painted flat black all over and then painted the car color from the front only so that the color comes through the holes in the wheel. or it has been over restored.
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And don't the wheels then need to have the double pin stripes on them?
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So I paint the wheel flat black and then paint the front (meaning the part of the rim under the hubcap) the color of the car? What happens to the lug bolts? Do the get painted and if so what color? I may never have the car judged but should I want to I want the option.
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At the factory, the wheels...less tires...hung from hooks. As the wheels went into the spray booth, a painter applied the color coat to the primed wheel but only to the side that faced out. The back of the wheel did not get painted except for some over spray.
Lug nuts and the front wheel grease covers should remain natural color. By the way, drums should be painted a semi gloss black, although everyone today applies a longer wearing gloss black. In fact, all suspension components, including the frame and shocks should be painted the same black.
There is a specific assembly process that the factory used. I can detail if anyone's interested. I learned this at a KF retirees banquet I attended several years ago with Ken Mericle, a KF retiree himself. I sat at a table with a group of gents whose job it was to attach the bits and pieces on to the frame. I learned alot that day!
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Thanks. I'd be interested in any thing you can share.
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I have bias ply on my Henry J, but radial tires on my stock 33 Ford. I put 35 Ford wire wheels on it so I could use 16 inch tires ( 225x75x16 they are the same height as the original 750x17's and the speedometer is only 3 mile off at 55mph).I have 3000 miles on them with no problems and it handles fine, with stock suspension and shocks. If I replace my tires in my J I'll go with radials.
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Seems like different cars respond differently to radials. My 1949 Buick Super was a handful until I changed to radials long time ago. Drove perfect after that. But have been disappointed with radials on other of my cars.
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I'm going with the bias ply white walls. Ordered them today. They are not cheap. I'll let everyone know what I think once I have them installed.
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The tires should be here tomorrow. Do I put tubes in them or simply mount them to the rims ? I have a question on the rims. One post says paint the entire rim black and then paint the front the color of the car. The next post says paint the front of the rim the color of the car and no other part of the rim gets painted. Which is correct ? My wheels look as if the latter suggestion is correct. Either the paint has wore off or there was no paint on the originally.
Does the drum, wheel well and springs all get painted black? Mine appears not to have been painted at all.
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do not put tubes in tubeless tires
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Factory steel wheels came from Motor Wheel, the primary supplier to KF in a matte black prime. KF then painted the front of the wheel to match the body. Both of my 47s, my 53 and my 54 all have color keyed wheels where the reverse is black. Of course, over the years, the finish has worn from most of them and they've patinated, but they were originally black on the reverse.
If your new tires are tubeless, as was previously mentioned, do not put tubes in them.
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Thanks Joe and Terry. What about the drums, and springs? Do they get painted black?
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The frame, suspension, steering and rear axle were all painted black at the factory after assembly. This included the shocks.
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I am curious as to why you say not to use tubes in tubeless tires. I've driven thousands of miles with tubes in tubeless bias ply tires for decades with various cars and never had a problem. If it was a safety issue, I don't think national brand tire stores would install them, but they do! Gary.
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I believe tubes should never be used in tubeless tires because they cause the tire to run hotter. The hotter a tire gets over it's lifetime the shorter it's life and the greater the chance of failure. I used to work in a tire store. We were very reluctant to install tubes in tubeless tires. This was years ago.
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Tubes were incorrectly installed in my new Coker bias-ply tubeless tires on my Darrin.
I thought that the first flat tire at a car show, after an hour trip on an expressway, was a fluke.
I got the second flat tire at the 2012 National after pushing my Darrin around 318 turns on the Tail of the Dragon road.
Fooled twice, I yanked all the remaining tubes out.
PROBLEM SOLVED!!!
Additionally, when I purchased DiamondBack radials for my Henry J, the company stated categorically not to put tubes in the tires because they can cause overheating.
4,000 miles later, including old 66 all the way to California, no problems.
I guess it can depend on how much and hard you drive your cars.
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Well I did not have much choice. I blasted the rims then painted them as suggested, flat black and then Caribbean Coral on the front side and then took them to the Goodyear store to have the white walls installed. The rims had oblong holes and the tire store felt like a valve stem would leak. So I had tubes installed. If I had not painted them I would have welded the holes up and drilled a new hole but i did not want to ruin the paint I had just applied. If the tubes give me trouble (I had new ones installed) I will go back and repair the rims.
At any rate I have them installed on the car but have not driven it yet. I am very much in love with them and once I paint the car Caribbean Coral they will really stand out. I'll post a picture or two.
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Here are some photos. They were taken with my phone so the color is not exactly true.
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" The rims had oblong holes and the tire store felt like a valve stem would leak."
I'm betting you talked to a younger worker there? Old wheels used a different valve stem. Bigger at the mounting hole.
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You will need to install truck style valves on your rims. They use a larger diameter mount hole.
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I had metal ones installed to help prevent them being broken or damaged by the hubcaps creeping around by wheel flex (I assume). My rubber ones were barely able to stay on due to the hubcap moving against them. I heard someone say use glue to prevent that, but I haven't tried anything yet.
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Love the tires. The car rides and handles great. I am surprised how well it steers. I feels like it has power steering. They look so good on the car that sometimes I catch myself staring at them. They were expensive, but I much prefer the look to a blackwall tire. Not sure what radials would have felt like but I very much like the bias ply tires.