Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Forum
General Category => Kaiser Forum => Topic started by: JoeKeys2010 on December 28, 2013, 01:05:56 PM
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I have a 6 volt battery in my 49 Kaiser. I took it to Autozone and they said the battey tests good. It does not seem to hold a charge for long. If the car does not start right up it dies pretty quick. When it dies I can put a charger on it and in about 15 mins it will spin hard enough to start the car. I have charged for as much as an hour but still don't get good results.
I have the kind of charger that has a timer. It does have a 6v setting and that is what I charge it on. How long do I charge it for and how do I know when it is fully charged?
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6 volt batteries should take no more than 2 hours at 6 amps to full charge from a dead state. AZ's testers are geared for 12V systems so load testing your 6V battery on their equipment won't yield a good result.
Make sure your car's electrical system is outputting between 6.7 and 7.3 volts at high idle. If it is, then it's doing its job to both charge the battery and supply adequate voltage to the accessories. If it's not, then that may be the reason for the battery's poor performance.
If the electrical system checks out and the battery won't hold a charge, replace the battery. 6V batteries typically last about 3 years.
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How do I test the system? I had the generator checked at a shop but have not tested the voltage regulator or the generator once installed.
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Charging system test proceedures are listed in the shop manual. just a foot note on getting the battery tested - I had O'Reilly test a battery for me a couple years ago (a 12 volt) and their tester said it was good. So I bought a starter and installed it - no fix. I had the car towed in and was told it needed a new battery. That fixed it so I really don't trust those battery analyzers. If it says a battery is bad, it likely is but if it says a battery is good I don't trust it.
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The best place for generator/charging system testing is a generator shop. There are several around my home and all rebuild 6 volt systems.
As for battery testing, same reasoning...goto a battery shop, e.g., Battery Giant, Interstate Batteries. They test with the proper load applied.
When I needed to replace my 6 volt battery (TSC brand), I got a DEKA from Battery Giant. It is significantly heavier than the TSC one.
I use BATTERY TENDERS on all of my batteries that sit for longer than 2 weeks.
The one in my HJ lasted 6 years.
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The generator has already been to a shop and tested good. The battery too. What has not been tested is the voltage regulator and how everything works in the car. The starter was also taken to a shop for testing. I'll check the shop manual and see if it has a test procedure.
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You can buy a simple volt meter at places like radio shack. With it, you can test generator and regulator output at the battery connections. When the car is first started, voltage output will be low, but with the idle raised, you should see the voltage level increase to around 7 volts. If it does, your system is working.
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A simple test is to put a voltmeter across the terminals. With the car not running a good battery reads over 6 volts. When running this will go up due to the generator charging to a desired 7.3 volts. As this is the final step in the charging process, this will in fact tell you how the total system is working.
To see if the generator is outputting enough current then measure the voltage with some accessories on. If the voltage can't be maintained under load there is a problem in the charging system.
A failing battery at rest will generally have little diffe4rence in voltage between individual cells. In a good battery they should all be around 2 volts. If one is low, the battery is failing.
Another potential problem is a short in the system draining the battery when the engine is off. An ohmmeter or ammeter between a battery terminal and the corresponding cable will show if such is occurring.
Trying to electrically troubleshoot a car without a VOM is at best difficult
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What is the amp rating of your charger? It may be a low 3 amp like mine. The clock can
drain the battery over time, so many members put a switch on the battery post to open the
circuit when the car is not to be driven for a while.
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I have a volt meter and will try it after we get back from church this morning. So the battery terminals are were to place the volt meter. Thanks for the tip.
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A volt meter is not an adequate test for the battery. About all it can do is tell you if there is a surface charge on the battery. You can put a meter on it, read 6.3 volts but as soon as you hit the starter it will go to zero. A good battery tester is required but as I mentioned, I don't trust those either. The rule I go by is "is the battery 5 years old or older?" If so, replace it.
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ngs.
There is no batt test that is 100% conclusive. Remember this as you go about checking out things.
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I've go it charging now. I found a charger in the garage that would charge 6v and shut off when the battery was fully charged. I charged it over night but before going to church this morning I cranked it and mistakenly left the key in the on position (after turning the car off) and effectively drained the battery again. It is on a charge now so this time when I get it charged I'll check with a volt meter and see where I'm at.
To make matters more complicated I discovered the clutch wanted to stick to the flywheel. I've had it out of service for about two months now while I cleaned it out underneath. I sat the car back down a couple of days ago and when I went to crank the car with the clutch depressed it acted like it was in gear. I tried bumping the starter to break it free but that did not work and the starter/battery was not strong enough to crank the car while in gear. I pulled it a short distance with the car in gear and the clutch pressed to the floor and managed to break it lose. All of that is working fine now. Just waiting to get a full charge on it so that I can start driving it again.
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I have been very happy with the 6 volt battery tender on both my cars. I run a plug to the front splash pan, behind the grills. I simply plug the tender in when car is in the garage. With tenders, I replace regular 6 volt every 5 years and the 6 volt optima every 7 years.
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Thanks for the tip. The charger I have that will shut itself off is not a tender (atleast I don't think it is) so looks like I need to pick one up.
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Look online, you can find them reasonably priced. One of mine came direct from them at their website.
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Batterytender.com
Part number 021-0144 is the one I prefer. It has nice LED lights that are easy to read and it does not get warm like the smaller version, but both 6 volts work great.
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Fid you can do a sort of a batt test with a volt meter. Hook it to batt. check voltage, have someone crank it over and see how far the voltage drops. Say it drops to 2 volts you either have a weak batt. or a starter drawing too much amperage. Poor mans load test.
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You can put a meter on it, read 6.3 volts but as soon as you hit the starter it will go to zero.
Pretty much what I said. True though, a shorted starter could cause the same symptom.
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Ok I went to the car this morning (I have it in a garage away from the house) and put a volt meter on it before starting it and the meter registered 6.2. Cranked the car looked at the meter 6.2. Increased the RPM to almost max, no movement on the volt meter, still 6.2. I live in a small town and the nearest alternator shop is about 45 minutes away so I don't really want to drive that far if the car is not charging. I sent the generator to the shop to make sure it was good. I took one off of my parts car as well. They said the one on my car was good but had to build the one on the parts car. I installed one of the two on my car but don't remember which. I did the same thing with the starters and both checked out good. This guy builds starters/alternators/generators for me at work; everything from forklifts to welders to locomotives to automobiles so I trust his work. My guess is the voltage regular, which looks very old, might not be working as it is the only thing I have not tested. What do you think?
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I agree, the voltage reg is not working. Remove the cover and check the contacts on each post for corrosion. They sometimes stick together as well. You can clean the contacts, use a fine sandpaper or emery cloth. Check to make sure all grounds are good...bad grounds will prevent a complete circuit.
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best deal for 6V Battery Tender Plus is $42 w/free shipping from Amazon
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A simple test of the generator is to start the engine and let it idle. run a jumper from the FIELD terminal of the generator to a good ground. Now get in the drivers seat and slowly accelerate the engine a watch the ampmeter. As the engine speeds up you will see the needle on the ampmeter will follow the engine speed but don't let it go over the 35 reading on the gauge. this will tell you if your problem is with the generator or the regulator. If the needle on the gage shows a charge then the generator is good but the regulator is bad.
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Just got home from playing with the car. I put a muiltimeter on it set on volts. Battery fully charged registers 6.2. Cranked the car 6.2. Pulled on the headlights on bright dropped to 5.9. Ran this way for 20 minutes no change 5.8 Turned off the head lights went to 6.1. Ran for 20 mins no change 6.1.
Put one end on a battery terminal and one end to one of the wires on the generator 6.8. Tried the other wire on the generator 6.8. Checked the two wires at the voltage regulator 6.8. Changed the mulitimeter to the opposite battery post and the other end on the third wire on the voltage regulator 6.8.
Car ran for about an hour. Shut it off and tried to crank it back up and it was sluggish. Turned it off tired to crank it again, battery died. Got the voltage regulator out of the parts car, no change in the above scenario. Volt meter did not increase with terminals on the battery and the RPM's on the car increased.
My guess is both voltage regulators are bad. Napa has one that I can order for $70. I suppose I will buy it and try that. One last thing, made sure all wires had good connections and sanded all the points.
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when you work on points, use a very fine grit, eg, 1000
points are typically burnished with a fine file that has diamond dust on it
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I know about sanding points. I think the regulators are just bad.
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Here's what you need!
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1946-53-HUDSON-N-O-S-NAPA-VR-25-SIX-VOLT-REGULATOR-/171172619599?pt=Vintage_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27daaee54f&vxp=mtr
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It's available new for $70 but I like the price of this one better. Thanks
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Ordered it. It will be here Friday - Monday. Hopefully this will solve my electrical problem. Thanks again joefrazer.
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Put on a new voltage regulator today and it's charging! The meter on the dash moved, it will run with the negative battery cable disconnected and the volt meter is registering 7.2 at the battery with the car running at a good idle. Put it on a slow trickle charge tonight to get a full charge on it. I did notice with the car switched off that the negative battery cable will spark a little when reconnected to the battery. Is that normal?
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If all lights are off and the doors are shut, then there should be no spark. It sounds like something is remaining "on" when the car isn't running. Could be a hot wire going to ground. With the ignition off, put a voltmeter on the battery terminals and look for a slow voltage drain.
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Door was open but my dome light doesn't work.
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Do you have a clock? Might be enough to draw a spark.
Possible dome light doesn't work because of a short in the circuit.
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no clock
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Found it. Left the key switch on. When I got to it this after noon the battery was dead and I found the key in the on position. Charged the battery, took it for a Sunday drive and checked this time with the key off an no spark at the battery.
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As many times as you have left the switch on you might take a look at your ign points. You could have burned them.
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Probably not a bad idea.
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So far so good. It charges up well, gage works and all. Just have to get used to how the manual choke operates. In the summer I did not have to touch it. I just about have it figured out although I have flooded it a time or two.
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Had a gal come in with a car running rough and noticed she had the choke pulled out and her purse hanging on it. Told her she couldn't do this and got quite an argument over where she would hang her purse.