Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Forum
General Category => Cars For Sale & Wanted => Topic started by: Roadmaster49 on October 06, 2014, 07:51:34 PM
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http://www.ebay.com/itm/Other-Makes-Other-4-DOOR-1947-other-makes-kaiser-frazer-no-reserve-project-rat-rod-/251662673627?forcerrptr=true&hash=item3a9843a6db&item=251662673627&pt=US_Cars_Trucks
This will be ended by the time most of you see it. Early Frazer in Milwaukee Wis
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Over with no bids at slightly more then crusher price. Original upholstery on seats covered with a car cover for years. The detailing on the seats is quite nice.
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Less than an hour north of me.
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The car was relisted. The head being off the engine is probably scaring most potential bidders away.
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I have a head on a 49. Would that work?
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Head is in the trunk. That sounds bad. The fact that it is non running is scaring most. I just sold a 1985 BMW 635 CSi, BMW's flagship sports coupe costing $45,000 originally, for $350 on ebay, because it doesn't run. Running ones, even with high miles, go for $1200 to $3500.
This Frazer is a nice project, but would probably require $25,000 to $35,000 to get it very nice.
I can't tell, is it a Manhattan or a standard Frazer?
This is the same color as the one in central Iowa, on Craigs List, also non running, for $2000 firm. Neither car is selling.
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By the look of the car and lack of recent tags, I would guess the engine has not run in quite some time so head on or head off is not relevant as you would have to rebuild the engine anyway, boring it out around .020 minimum.
As for cost of restoration, remember this is NOT A BUICK and things don't cost as much for a 1947-48 K-F product. Also, read the body tag in the photo...it is a standard 1947 Frazer towards the end of production.
A good old car person NEVER quotes a price for restoration unless they run a shop and the figure is if their restoration shop does the work. Actual cost of a restoration depends in large measure on the amount of work you can (and are willing to) do yourself. This is especially true if you are only going by photos and descriptions from someone that may not be an expert on the car. It's almost as bad as giving someone a value on the vehicle as far as what it would sell for as it sits. Actual sale price is what they can get for it.
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Agree but after doing a nice restoration as opposed to a show restoration I've a pretty good idea what it would cost in my time and cash. The chrome will be every bit of 3k, tires 500-1000 depending on whitewall or black walls. No telling on engine work, paint materials will be 500. I could go on but you could drop 10k if you do most of the work.
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Isn't that a better figure than 35K as Roadmaster suggests?
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Well, I am not a restoration shop. There is less chrome on a Kaiser/Fr yes. I assume the grille is stainless, not chrome in that comment. So basically bumpers, and $3,000 seems about right.
Any engine rebuild done properly is $3000 to $5000 but as I understand it, there are some KF specialists that might do it for less.
Ancillary engine bay stuff like a wiring harness ($2000, yes $2000) radiator ($500) pumps, brakes, exhaust, suspension = $5000.00 for parts and services, with YOU doing most of the work.
Have not started on body. Using this one as an example, sand, prime, smooth with filler, fix rust, more primer, lots of time, and finally two stage paint done by a specialist should be $5000 to $10,000.
Dash restoration, glass if needed, floor pan work, wheels and tires = $1000 to $2500.
Upholstery was very specific to KF's and we see generic work so often, and bemoan it. So getting original style upholstery and having a specialist install it, including package shelf, headliner and carpet = $5000 minimum.
Add it all up and a person is easily looking $30,000 for at most a $7000 to $10,000 car at most. The problem is, if you rebuild the mechanicals, do the body but leave the interior original, then that, or whatever you don't do, sticks out like a sore thumb and you aren't happy. It's all or nothing.
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Mine was not an all encompassing estimate just what I spent on mine on the major stuff. I paid $3,500 for mine and probably spent another 7K on it plus a lot of my time and the time off my seamstress wife. Mine ran when I got it and I did not have to do anything to the running gear (yet). the 25K you quoted would be about right if you paid someone to do the work and you did not have parts. If you had parts and could do it yourself you are still gong to spend 7-10K to get it in decent shape.
The grill on mine was pot medal and had to be chromed it was not stainless so the $3k I spoke of did the front and rear bumpers, guards, grill, and various pieces of trim.
The car is too close in appearance to mine for me to be interested in it and I don't want to put that much work into one again. If it were not a rust bucket and I did not have a similar looking car already I might be interested. For someone who can do the work themselves it would be a good project.
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Wow. Guess I got a better deal than I thought on my '51, as 90% of the stuff on Roadmaster's list was done to mine by the previous owner. He claimed to have 16K in the restoration work.
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It's possible. But in reality that's not that much. A friend I know has a 47 Lincoln and has over 10k in the chrome. KF are affordable and easy to work on. You would not get very far on a Cadillac if you spent 7k in restoration.
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The "work" we do ourselves is called the restoration hobby so that part for some of us is rewarding and enjoyable.
Good thing your wife is a seamstress ;D
Note the 53 Kaiser (Manhattan?) posted by Mr. Manhattan further up. Offered at $7000, probably had for $6000, that represents the current and future of the hobby. Where a person buys a nice original or restored car at a fair price and maintains it for a few years. According to JoeFrazer that was a former members car, maybe and I wouldn't doubt it.
I can't upholster. And the detail of upholstery on this car is phenomenal for the time, which was a KF hallmark. So basically to "do" upholstery on this 47 Frazer you go beg SMS for the fabric, which may cost, after door panel material, headliner, and seats etc $2000 for material ONLY, now you can go buy an industrial level sewing machine for $500? $800? and try doing it yourself. You'll likely need seat foam, and such. By the time you are done, again if restoration is a hobby then that process would be fun. But not sure how good it would look compared to a Hemmings advertiser level upholstery shop.
So, I think we will continue to put these cars needing full restorations on here because we like to see what is out there, but few if any are getting garage clearing restorations.
It's not fair to compare costs to eventual value. I am getting a 50 Hudson Commodore 8 sedan that is going to an expensive restoration shop in the next couple of months at a $1000 a month rate.
For my next car, I have decided to get a nice driver like the Mr. Manhattan car for $5000 to $10,000. To do that I am setting a few bucks aside each paycheck until my seed money gets traction. Should have done it years ago.