Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Forum
General Category => Kaiser Forum => Topic started by: Sams1954car on November 07, 2014, 09:10:16 PM
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Can you buy a mechanical fuel pump that fits my 54 Kaiser Manhattan and on my fuel pump there's to vacuum lines One is off and I can't find where the line is in one goes to the carburetor where does the other one go
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54s were equipped with superchargers and as such had single action fuel pumps...meaning they didn't have a vacuum side. pumps on 54s with superchargers have a fitting on the top with a line that ran up to a fitting at the top of the supercharger.
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Sam, the 54's did not have any features that utilized vacuum. Unsure what your "lines" are for???
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sam take a pic and send it here ,,its probably an older type with vacum wipers bottom is fuel pump top is vacum
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Guys, on the same topic, my 51 K is equipped with electric wipers but does have the dual action pump with the top vacuum section, the two top ports are opened to ambiant.
I would like to replace it because it is kind of sweating fuel from the bottom section.
Might as well go for the single action pump as replacement, but it seems to be hard to find, on the net anyway... you guys have any idea where I could find one ?
Thanks, as always.
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47-55 Master parts- 800-424-7839 also Kaiser Willys p/n735994 Rudy Phillips p/n 209963 NAPA p/n M2195 Rebuild kits are also listed in the Kaiser Parts Interchange & Sources in the Monthly Bulletin
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Got myself a new pump from NAPA p/n M2195 FOR $60, thanks Dusty !
I was thinking of switching for an electric pump but I'm going to stick with the standard installation for now, for the little I'm using the car...
Now for the fuel filter, I've got one installed in between the pump and the carb, with flex lines.
I don't think it's the best since it's right in line with the exhaust manifold which does not have a heat shield.
I think the original installation had the filter on the other side (driver's side), down below, against the frame somewhere, right guys ?
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The filter should be installed before the pump.
There are some modern day inline filters, about 6" long x 1" dia. that are easy to install--try O-Reillys ..$12
You merely cut the fuel just after the fuel tank, in a good horizontal area, install with compression fittings
The have a cartridge that can be changed. With incidental usage...could last 100 years
I have 2 installed and I am amazed how much sand is in our local gas.
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Thanks for the tip Terry T.
I think I'll go one step further and add a shut-off valve in line with the filter then, always usefull for maintenance purposes...
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That's a great idea.
Let me know what and where you found a small enough one.
I could not find an appropriate one.
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My friend has a 55 Chevy and has a T in the gas line from the tank with a shut off valve. When he needs gas for the lawn mower, he places a can under the car and gravity drains out what he needs. Better then having gas sit around in a can. LOL
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Does anyone have a picture of the correct installation of the fuel line between the pump and the carb for my 51 K ?
I would like to see a picture of the correct installation / location of the fuel filter for the same car.
Thanks guys !
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Here's a picture of the correct line mounting to the carb on a 51K.
This is not my car - not everything under the hood may be correct, but the fuel line mount and routing to the carb is.
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On the driver's side below the generator is a sediment glass fuel filter and then connects to a steel line going across the front to
the fuel pump on the other side. I believe this is original for the '51 and maybe later years ?
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The separate fuel filter was only used on 1951-1952 Virginians. With the later series 1952 models, K-F went back to the filter below the fuel pump section like the pre 1951 pumps hadl
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:-*
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I should be ok with the fuel line, I'll have one made per the pictures posted.
No pics for the fuel filter installation guys ?
Thanks
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You will find a good illustration of the factory installed fuel filter on a 1951 Kaiser in the 1951 Kaiser and Frazer factory Service Manual. If you have a deluxe, the car was equipped with a single stage pump unless the car was built prior to August 1950 (lower serial number). Check KFOCI HANDBOOK for more information on this point under Accessory Groups. Originally, 1851 Kaiser Deluxe models came without the electric wipers. With the advent of the electric type wipers, the fuel pump went from double to single stage and stayed that way except for a group of 1953 Kaisers that were built with the double action pump because of part shortages; these were plugged on the upper stage by the factory.
These days, the double stage pump seems to be the only new pump type available through auto parts stores, but the same can be said for a lot of the 1950's and earlier cars. Original old NOS should not be used unless the seals are changed from the old rubber type to the LATEST release level Neophreme seals. Some of the older formulations will break down when exposed to current type gasolines.
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My 51 Kaiser is a Deluxe with electric wipers.
I found installed an uncapped, sweating double stage fuel pump when I got the car.
It was coupled to the carburator with flexible hoses and plastic NAPA fuel filter.
I figured I would replace it with a rebuilt single stage. Found one at my local NAPA.
I will have a rigid tube made, similar to the original to couple to the carb, without a filter.
I have to install that filter somewhere else, upstream of the pump.
I checked the installation shown in the Shop Manual, fig. 104 & 108 and don't seem to have that anymore on the car. Might have been removed some time before me for who knows what reason !
That's why I was wondering if you guys would have a good clear picture of fuel filter installation.
Of course, I could always figure out something not original style, on the left side of the engine (driver's side) in the engine compartment for easy access...
ideas ? recommendations ?
Thanks
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My '53 Manhattan didn't have a fuel filter when I got it, and there was no evidence that it ever had one. This worried me a bit after 40,000 miles, and I saw a scintered brass filter for some other car that fit in the recess in the top of the carb between the input line and the float valve. there is normally a screen here. I trimmed it slightly and installed in place of the screen. 120,000 miles later I had never had any sort of problem.My suspicion is that the screen would work pretty well by itself. Completing restoration now I'm opting for the same approach. The kluges with the glass bowl look like potential firestarters to me. Just sayin.
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My '53 was also original-style with no other filter than the screen at the bottom of the pump bowl. Seemed to work fine.
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My 48 has the glass bowl on the bottom of the pump and a screen in the carb ...but the screen in the pump was broke down......do they still make these?
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Yes, parts are available. These folks have been a good source of parts for me over the years -> http://then-now-auto.com/
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OK guys, I started my fuel pump replacement today, taking the oportunity to replace the valve cover gasket at the same time.
The fuel pump inlet line (flexible section coming from the fuel tank all the way thru the front of the engine) was connected to the aft port of the old pump (looking at the pump installed on the engine block), the outlet hard tubing connected to the forward port of the pump and then going up to the carb.
One question arised, as I was going to install the replacement unit, I noticed '' IN'' punched underneeth the forward port of the rebuilded pump. I've put the installation on hold. Have you guys seen that before ? The replacement pump looks like the old unit and seems to fit in place. Is the inlet port really on the forward side on that rebuilded unit, opposite from the old one?
Awaiting comments from you experienced fellows...
Thanks !
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Reading back the above... of course, the inlet fuel line is not all the way flexible !!! Just the last 6 in that connects to the pump...
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The replacement pump is a NAPA 572.
http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=AFP572_0405704082
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The easiest way to know which is the inlet/outlet is to clamp the arm in a vise and push down on the pump body to actuate the diaphragm with your finger over one of the openings. If there's suction, that's the inlet. If you finger is pushed away, you've found the outlet.
You could have a misstamped pump, or one with the clock position 180 degrees out.
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Sounds like the bottom section of the rebuilt pump was installed wrong. Remove the screws and rotate the bottom section of the pump so that the inlet port matches the inlet position on the old pump and screw it back on in that position.
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BE EXTRA CAREFUL! Rotate the housing and not the diaphragm. It will disengage from the actuating arm if rotated.
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Thanks guys,
I first checked to see if I had suction from the 180 deg wrong inlet port and air pressure from the opposite outlet port per JoeFrazer's instructions and I do.
Before trying to rotate the bottom part, I ordered another one from NAPA to compare with the one I got... I should get it tomorrow and I'll keep you posted...
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Well, it seems like the NAPA AFP572 fuel pumps are assembled with the inlet on the forward side instead of the aft one cause the second unit was the same as the first one.
So I ended up unscrewing and rotating the bottom housing 180 deg on that rebuilded unit. Being carefull not to disturb the diaphragm like you guys said. I checked the Service Manual which adresses the fuel pump overhaul as well.
Did the manual pressure / suction test like previously and confirmed that pressure is now coming from the forward port. :)
Imagine if the rebuilded pump was installed without checking (it's a possibility due to both aft and forward ports being the same size/threads), it would have blown air into the line that comes from the gas tank !!! What a pain in t..... ! >:(
I should try to start this baby sometime next week once done with other stuff on the car... I'll keep you posted !
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Hello fellows,
Went to pick up my youngest kid at school today with the Kaiser and following a inspection of the engine compartment upon my return home, everything seems good !
So the NAPA AFP 572 fuel pump with the 180 deg. reverted bottom works fine and is leak free. So is my newly made hard line from the pump to the carb based on the referenced picture posted earlier in this thread.
I had to make myself spacers to compensate for the new pump's thinner mounting flange. I used a thin threaded rod to work the hard line pattern. See pics.
The only thing though, I'd still like to install a filter somewhere between the fuel tank and the pump because of the contaminents I found in the old one I removed.
P.S. Yeah, I know, this engine block needs a good paint job !!!
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is that a copper line? steel is less of a heat conductor but a little harder to bend. but it looks good though!
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It's not a copper line like the ones for plumbing. (altough I admit it does look like that on the picture !)
I got the line from a local hydraulic shop and they told me it's made of an alloy which permits easier bending than pure steel. They use it for industrial high pressure hydraulic applications.
It's very solid and leak free so far. :)
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Looking good. I will add that we rerouted the fuel line out away from the exhaust manifold to avoid vapor lock - it has worked well. I drove the car all day in 93 degree heat two weeks ago and no problems at all. I don't know if this will cost you any points at a meet but it sure makes the car more enjoyable!
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Fuel Pumps: Supercharged engines had a single diaphragm pump. They were all Manhattans and had electric wipers so they didn't need the vacuum booster side of a fuel pump for the wipers.
HOWEVER, supercharged engines had a pressures line from the air box to the top of the single diaphragm fuel pump. Here is the reason. The carb is inside the air box and when the SC is turned on, the gas in the carb is now at 4 psi ABOVE atmospheric. The SC pressure could actually force gas back out of the carb (pump pressure is about 3.5-4 psi tops). The line from the air box to the top of the fuel pump makes the pressure on top of the fuel pump diaphragm the same as the carb in the air box so the fuel pump can continue pumping fuel into the carb.
I have seen fuel pump castings with bosses which suggest that there is nothing move involved here than drilling, tapping a hole for a pipe fitting, and running a steel line.
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There were two rounds of K-F Experimental Engineering tests using a supercharger on the 226 to boost horsepower. The first round used a 226 on a test stand and things work well at static. Round two had a s/c in a running automobile and they found out about the pressure issue that required the line from box to pump during actual driving. Carter was willing to design a special pump with expectations of higher volume than actually materialized but it works as hoped for.