Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Forum
General Category => Kaiser Forum => Topic started by: Logan on October 26, 2009, 10:14:17 PM
-
The headliner in my 53 Dragon is coming down in two places right over my head. It is not torn, and is in good condition. When I feel up there I can move two bars, one behind each seam, but as I do not know how it was installed, I don't know if there is an "easy" fix or not. I really don't know anything about this, but is there anything that can be done short of pulling it all out (which I would not do myself)?
-
Logan,
I just removed my headliner in my 53 manhattan last week what I seen was the headliner is in strips going across the car from one side to the other as all the older cars were done this way. These strips are cut at angles to conform the to top of the car then sewn together but before they are sewn there is a piece of folded over piece of material placed between each seam for a metal rod that hold your headliner up and tight. Kind of like a house curtain would have where you run a curtain rod though a curtain that you would have in your home. Sounds to me like the folded material has torn inside probably due to old age and the rod in protruding through the top of the folded material thus letting the headliner fall down. I'm thinking not much you can do to fix it unless you pull the headliner out and have it fixed with new material (the folded material that is).
-
Well, unfortunately, that's what I thought. The clincher is that all the upholstery in there is in really good shape, and I hate to mess anything up. Also, I plan on doing a restoration on this car at some point in the future (engine and chasis, new seat inserts at least, new paint, chrome, and gold-plate). So, maybe I just have to live with this for now. Thanks for the expertise info.
-
I did auto uphostery in college for a few years just to learn and do my Studebaker, Hudson, ect.. A headliner is VERY easy to replace, takes alittle time, but not a all day job, the problem you are having is what was said, the strip of material going thru the bow has ripped, I have the same problem in my 55 Packard, I was thinking about getting a little bottle of super glue, with the needle, and poking in in the material and holding it up to the bow for a quick dry, just to do a quick fix to see if that would work, as I don't want to replace the headliner at this time. I'll try that, and let you know what happens, may be a few weeks though. But, I heard the material for the headliner is now being reproduced, and putting a new one in, is not hard at all. I will be glad to help you out on info, or if you live close to me, I'll do it for you, as you can sit back and chat old car stuff while i do it.
-
Hey Orphanauto
The stuff that is in the groove on each side of the headliner where you would staple the headliner material and rope looking material. Mine is 1/2 by 1/2 roughly what is that stuff made of? Looks like maybe a hard cardboard material. ???
-
Orphanauto, I'm in Texas--I'm not sure where you are. I wonder if it is separated, because I can feel the rods, which seem like they themselves are hangin down. Is it possible that the material is still connected to the rods, but they have somehow moved out of there place? If so, can they be pushed back up? I admit I have tried to push them back upthrough the headliner to no effect, so perhaps this is not it. It's not annoying until I am driving on the freeway with the windows down and wind gets under the headliner and pushes it against my head.
-
Mow4aliving,, The material that runs along side the headliner is called the windlace, it is very easy to replace too, provided, you have the headliner out. You really can't do it without taking the headliner out, so, IF you are going to replace the headliner, thats the time to replace the windlace. The material should be soft, but after 50 plus years, most of them have became as hard as a rock. some, start to disinicrate inside turning to dust. oh, by the way, it's made out of a soft foam type of material covered by cloth. Logan, I'm in the south west part of Mo. between Joplin and Springfield. Yes, the material of the Headliner is sewn from 6-7 peices with a strip of material about 1/2 inch circle in between each piece, these 1/2 inch circles then are used to slid the rods that go from the left to right of the car to hold it up. The 1/2 in material has spilt, and therefore your headliner is hanging down. The headlinr can be pulled out and repaired, but that might be a tricky thing to do. Since there seems to be a big interest in this, perhaps I can take pictures, and do a little article for the club in the KF monthly. If anyone has questions on uphosltery, I would be glad to help, I do not do this for a living, I am a over the road truck driver, but did this in college to do my cars, and enjoyed it, therefore, part of the injoyment of the clubs to me is learning from you guys on the technical, ect, I'll help with what I can. Anyway, if ANYONE had any quesions, you may call me at 417-350-5851 Ron... this is my cell, www.orphanauto.webs.com
-
Hi Guys - If I can jump in here, I believe what mow4alivn is asking about is the tack strip. The "rope" like material which the headliner and windlace staple to. It does become junk after a period of time. The 21st century remedy is tack strip made from neoprene or some such material. I've used it in my last few restorations and it is far superior to the old style material. Check with your local upholstery shop, I'm sure they'll have it in stock. That's my story and I'm sticking to it, of course, your mileage may vary!!
Gary.
-
Orphanauto, I'll bet there would be a lot of interest if you did an article in the monthly. Upholstery and paint are the two things I'm scared of. I don't mind tackling the mechanicals. Thanks everyone for the advice, I think it will have to hang for a while until I get ready to do the rest of the interior--at one point someone replaced the seat inserts with a plain white vinyl, so I would like to get the original style patterned laguna cloth, which I hear SMS is planning on producing (or are they currently producing it?).
-
Thanks darrin145, you were right thats what I was asking about.
OK, Now with that question answered. There is a person on ebay selling headliners, seat recovering, and custom fit carpeting for Kaisers. I believe they are located in canada. Has anyone ever used their items for your kaisers? If so did they look and fit good?
Thanks, mow4alivn
-
Hey Mow, sorry if I miss understood what you were asking about. I don't know about the place in Canada, but I have bought a few headliners from a place in Long Beach California, they are a big compnay that makes them for J.C. Whitney, and just about anybody. I had some made for a Studebaker Starlight coupe, as well as for a Lark. I would buy it from SMS IF you want the origianl material, as I heard they are now making the original boucle material, opps, I think I miss spelled that, haha, anyway, I am an all original type guy, so IF you are going original, well, that's what I would do. Also, IF you need help putting it in, you can call me with any questions, and I'll try to tell you how to do it. It really is very easy. Perhaps, when I get a chance to do the article, I'll try to post here as well, and post pictures. My 53 Manhattan only has 47,500 miles, and my headliner is original, and like new, so, I may have to do my Lark for the article, or something. IF anyone in my area needs theirs done, I will do the labour for free to use for pictures for the article. oh, by the way, you can almost always get a little bit extra material so you can have the visors done in the same material when you order the headliner.
-
And if you have a Dragon the headliner is the same bamboo vinyl that is on the seats, which SMS also reproduces I hear.
-
Okay, I was feeling up behind the headliner today and I can definitely tell that the metal rods are somehow out of place, as they are nearly touching my head. In fact, it is possible that the vinyl loops are still intact and only the bars have come out of position. Would this still require taking the headlinger out? I was trying to shove them around, but didn't want to go too far and rip the headliner or something.
-
The headliner on my 53 Dragon come down too. The loops in the material that the rods went through were not torn. The reason it came down was that rubber grommets that the rods sit deteriorate over time and do not hold the rods tight. I turned the rods to the correct position and put a sheet metal screw in the hole beside the rod to hold it in place. This repair was done six or seven years ago and it is still okay. The hard part of this repair was to put the wind lace back in place.
-
That's what I'm concerned about. I have no experience whatever in upholstery and am very nervous about tearing windlace/headliner, not being able to get it back in, etc. Thanks for confirming the problem. If I get brave I may try this method.
-
To all the Kaiser car owners with the vinyl head liner. I have done 3 car head liners and they arnt that bad to do. following are some tips, the replace the cardboard tack strip with new plastic 1/2x1/2 from SMS does a great job, use a good staple gun to fasten it to the head liner. If you ruin the head liner a new one is available complete from SMS in kaiser colors. the problem that caused to rusting/rotting was the vinyl did not allow any breathing thru the vinyl
-
Hi,
I saw the item about an article for the "monthly". I think it would be better for the QUARTERLY so details can be covered better and more pictures can be used. If you have something that will run more than 2 pages in the double column format (including pictures) I think it would work better in the magazine.
-
SMS AUTO UPHOLSTERY IN CANBY OREGON HAS THE BAMBU AND NUBBY BOUCLE TO MAKE YOUR HEADLINERS, THEY HAVE A COMPLETE PATTERN FOR 52-55 . I SENT BOTH TO DOUG POLLACK AT SMS THIS YEAR, FIND THEIR PHONE & ADDRESS IN THE MONTHLY BULLETIN OR THE KAISER PARTS INTERCHANGE LIST
-
Or visit their website -
http://www.smsautofabrics.com/
-
So, how do you take the headliner out to get to the bows, assuming my loops have not torn through and the bows just need to be held in place? Do you need to take the windlace out too? Is the headliner stapled in?
-
I think you would be right about putting together an article about replacing headliner and/or windlace in the interior as it will naturally deteriorate over time no matter how well the car is stored. It would need pictures and/or drawings to show what is what so someone not versed in upholstery could do the work (or at least have a fighting chance to do it right). That would require several pages, making it material for the QUARTERLY not the monthly bulletin....the bulletin is for meet information, stuff for sale/wanted and short bits and blurbs.
-
The windlace "tack strip" does have to be removed. The windlace itself depends on if it's stapled over or under the headliner. Usually it's under but you never know. The headliner is stapled or tacked into the inner strip which is glued to the body. You tip the bows backward or forward and unhook them from the clips that fasten them to the pinch weld above the windows. You'll see what I mean when you try the first one. After the headliner is removed, you then slide the bows out of the headliner. I'd recommend buffing the rust off them and primering them before installing them in the new head liner.
-
Superk226, you said that you got into your headliner and repositioned the bows. I'm pretty sure this is what I need to do, but I don't know how to go about it. Do I remove the windlace, or is the headliner (on a '53 Dragon) over the windlace? Orphanauto, has your offer to do a piece on this in the quarterly been taken up? I'm getting impatient having the thing drag on my head everywhere I drive, but I don't dare rip into it without knowing what I'm doing. I'll try to be patient, because it looks like we have a large knowledge base out there about the proper procedure for doing this.
-
I would love to do an article on it, with pictures. My problem right now is my 53 is original and the headliner is perfect, therefore, mine doesn't need done. IF I find anyone in my area that needs a headliner done, I will do the labor for free, They will just have to buy the headliner from SMS or wherever. Then I can take digital photos and explain how I am doing it. Anyone interested in having theirs done? I live in the s.w. mo. area, between Springfield, and Joplin Mo. I will be contacting all the KFOIC members in my area for a local car show on July 3rd this coming month. While I do that, I'll check to see if anyone in my area is interested in having this done. I have a friend who has a 46 Dodge pick up. He has burlap for seat covers, so I think I will show how to make a pattern for new seats, if ALL you have is springs, and no material left for a pattern. should be interesting for those who like to drag a car home thats been sitting for so long, the material has been eated by rats, or the sun, or.... Please let me know what you would like to see in the article along with ( specific questions ) or besides the headliner. I am not a expert, but have done some before, including complete interiors, so I would love to do my part in helping the club. Thanks... :)
-
Hey Orphanauto, do you plan on coming to the national convention? If so, I would certainly volunteer my car for your services ;D, since I'm in Austin, which is quite close to the convention site.
-
Sorry, I will not be able to make the national. I wish I could, then I could do a live hands on seminar and show everyone interested in how to do it with your car. If I get a chance to do a national, I would be interested in doing that. I am sorry I won't be able to make it this year.
-
Will San Diego in 2011 be in your travel plans. If so let me know and I will help you get such a training session setup.
-
There are many ways to mess up a headliner installation and it needs to be perfect in all corners and the bows need to be tight, If you have all of the material to do it, it won't cost much to have a professional upholstery shop install it correctly. They do them frequently, quickly and properly. I would not take a chance with all of that glue!
-
That might be the ticket for now. I might just get an estimate to see what we are talking about, and what they recommend.
-
Many moons ago I ordered a headliner kit from JC Whitney for my 51 Kaiser Deluxe. They advertised "complete kits" which included windlace, tacks, glue etc. They had detailed directions in the catalog in those days and you had to show on a drawing all the bows and the distances between them etc. Well I got the kit ok but the first thing I noted was there was way too little windlace and I complained and gave them the amount needed based on actual measurements on the car--it takes about a "mile" of the stuff for a 4 door. (I procrastinated for weeks on attempting to install the kit until finally I made an effort which I soon aborted when it looked like it could not possibly fit. I went over to an old time upholestery shop and told them my problem. He found out I had a pond at my place and he said how about if he drops by and takes a look at the car (and the pond for his grandkids to fish in). I had the seats out of the car and just a wooden crate in it that I used to drive to move the car around. He took the headliner and the bows and hopped in and sat on the box and I turned to look out at a passing car. When I looked back he said ok it is going to fit. He already had put all the bows in and inserted all the hooks along the sides...
On the spot I made a deal for him to do the headliner and make new door panels and also to redo the seats. There was enough material to recover the sun visors also.
-
Love your story, ben-tex! My own usually turn out just the opposite.