Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Forum
General Category => Cars For Sale & Wanted => Topic started by: Carpenter on September 18, 2015, 11:59:20 PM
-
See photos under General Information, topic "Just arrived". The most rustless body that I have seen in years. Had plans for it, but income is not adequate for "dream project". I have $3200 in it and that is all I want. Have located motor, supercharger, Hydramatic trans, and starter. ..crated for delivery. Will attempt interior photos this weekend.
-
I know 1954 one, drived it, worked on it. Hope the new owner keeps this on the road (http://sieuthi77.com/d2.jpg) (http://sieuthi77.com/main/nhakhoa.html)
-
Thanks. What other information can you provide about this auto? I like to get the whole story when possible.
-
Would like to see this one stay in the USA. Have already been contacted by someone outside the USA.
-
I was under the impression that Kaiser lovers were desperately looking for a good (almost) rust free body to buy. This is one of them.
-
Carpenter
The moon and stars need to align just right for you to sell to a KF member. Meaning right place, right price, and buyer motivated. If you need to sell it to someone in Europe, then go ahead.
-
Roadmaster, everyone keeps trying to find one that won't require a mint to get in show condition and THIS is one.
-
Can't believe someone doesn't want this one. It has to be one from New Mexico or Arizona..almost NO rust.
-
No one on this forum wants it, which is a limited geographically spread out audience. Put it on ebay at no reserve and somebody will buy it.
-
Members of the KFOCI can run a free FOR SALE ad in KFOCI MONTHLY BULLETIN. This reaches all regular members of the club (Associate Members are the only ones that do not get publications). Why not try that instead of posting here?
-
Thank you for the suggestion. I have a problem: I'm not a member.
-
That's easy to remedy!
-
Submit the ad content to the Bulletin Editor and I am pretty sure it will be included. I do not believe you have to be a member to submit an ad. An ad would reach a larger audience and they will know where the car is so it may end up as a sale. But would take awhile.
-
Only one bite so far...for this one. Almost rust free.
-
Submit the ad content to the Bulletin Editor and I am pretty sure it will be included. I do not believe you have to be a member to submit an ad.
Just to clarify ~ non-members may submit a "one time only" free ad (preferably sponsored by a current member, but not mandatory). Carpenter contacted me, and his ad will be published in the NOV 2015 issue.
-
Thanks, Barbara.
-
I'm finding out one thing, in advertising my car for sale: people want a nice complete car for a nickel and dime price. In country terminology they are called "cheapskates"...a miserly person who does not want to pay a fair price. No wonder the price of Kaisers isn't up to what it should be. A true Kaiser lover would pay what a car is worth.
-
Carpenter: I agree with you. It may be due to the fact that less and less of us can do the
work ourselves and therefore the cost of restoration is going up dramatically. People are
looking to buy a unrestored car cheaply to offset the restoration cost. For myself the fun
is in the restoration, but many things I can no longer do.
-
It is my understanding from a couple of KFOCI members - that the KF guys are on the cheap side. There are a LOT of significant KF's out there languishing away because no one will pay a little more to restore them. The Black Onyx Dragon and the 999/888 Dragon come to mind. The "last Kaiser built" has been available for years and no one in the club will pay the ransom.
On the other hand, you may have over paid for the car. I just lost about $3000 on selling my 1995 Mercedes SL500.
-
Gotta disagree about overpaying for this car.
-
I'm finding out one thing, in advertising my car for sale: people want a nice complete car for a nickel and dime price. In country terminology they are called "cheapskates"...a miserly person who does not want to pay a fair price. No wonder the price of Kaisers isn't up to what it should be. A true Kaiser lover would pay what a car is worth.
Carpenter, you purchased a car then determined that the cost to restore was beyond your budget and/or the cost to do the car would be substantially more than its finished value. You offer it for sale to K-F enthusiasts, but then call them cheapskates for not getting in line to bail you out for what you have invested. Perhaps others recognize already what it took you a while to realize - that the economics of restoration just don't work out for this car; if so, that is not a reason to make derogatory remarks towards them.
Maybe as Roadmaster49 suggests you overpaid for the car, or maybe you got a good deal, who knows? Put the car on eBay and let the market determine its value.
-
Hate to disappoint you in your assessment, but it is highly probable that I will soon have the funds to do exactly what I had in mind when I bought this car. The lack of adequate funds is only temporary. You may want to try some other subject.
-
The value of this car, when finished, will far exceed any and all investments that I will have made.
-
The value of this car, when finished, will far exceed any and all investments that I will have made.
What do you believe your car will be worth when finished? Is it your intention to sell the car or enjoy it?
-
The high end value - real world not over inflated price guides - of a nice original or restored 54 Manhattan is $10,000 to $15,000. Even then, the buyers pool is quite small requiring a high marketing effort. That is, a well sorted, many high resolution photo ebay auction that would likely run for 6 months to find that "needle in a haystack" buyer.
Good luck with your restoration, it will be nice to see another one added to the thousands of 54 Kaisers left.
-
The high end value - real world not over inflated price guides - of a nice original or restored 54 Manhattan is $10,000 to $15,000. Even then, the buyers pool is quite small requiring a high marketing effort. That is, a well sorted, many high resolution photo ebay auction that would likely run for 6 months to find that "needle in a haystack" buyer.
Good luck with your restoration, it will be nice to see another one added to the thousands of 54 Kaisers left.
Thankful today for the extremely knowledgeable and gifted forum commenters to value our cars and the market in general.
"thousands of 54 Kaisers left?" Really? What planet do you live on?
HAPPY THANKSGIVING everyone!
-
The value of this car, when finished, will far exceed any and all investments that I will have made.
What do you believe your car will be worth when finished? Is it your intention to sell the car or enjoy it?
I have a price in mind but not revealing it. I plan to enjoy it for a while, then sell. Will be the owner of others.
-
The high end value - real world not over inflated price guides - of a nice original or restored 54 Manhattan is $10,000 to $15,000. Even then, the buyers pool is quite small requiring a high marketing effort. That is, a well sorted, many high resolution photo ebay auction that would likely run for 6 months to find that "needle in a haystack" buyer.
Good luck with your restoration, it will be nice to see another one added to the thousands of 54 Kaisers left.
Thankful today for the extremely knowledgeable and gifted forum commenters to value our cars and the market in general.
"thousands of 54 Kaisers left?" Really? What planet do you live on?
HAPPY THANKSGIVING everyone!
Earth. Every week there are 5-10 1954 Kaiser products for sale. A search on this Buy/Sell would find well over 250 in the past 5 years - 1954-55. Just scroll down this page of the Buy/Sell there are 4.
-
At this point in time with any KF product, one would restore it for the love of the car, not for any profit to be made because there will probably be none. The only way to make money on a Kaiser would be to modify it into a fire breathing street machine or a low-rider or a rat-rod of some sort. Stock restorations are worth, as Roadmaster49 said, $10,000 to $15,000. A well executed street rod might bring $30,000 to $40,000, so there is room for profit there.
And there is no need to call anyone names or belittle their ideas for a project. We are all friends here, let's remember that.
-
At this point in time with any KF product, one would restore it for the love of the car, not for any profit to be made because there will probably be none. The only way to make money on a Kaiser would be to modify it into a fire breathing street machine or a low-rider or a rat-rod of some sort. Stock restorations are worth, as Roadmaster49 said, $10,000 to $15,000. A well executed street rod might bring $30,000 to $40,000, so there is room for profit there.
And there is no need to call anyone names or belittle their ideas for a project. We are all friends here, let's remember that.
As someone only part way through restoring an Aero, I can confirm that you are absolutely 100 percent correct, my car will NEVER be worth what it's taking to restore it. Sometimes I think it's the dumbest financial move I've ever made in my life and from a pragmatic view, it really is. On the other hand, it is a satisfying venture to see the rusty hulk I've drug around so many years being brought back to life, albeit rather slowly.
It's not just the resto guys either, more often than not, even the street rodders take a beating when selling their creations. There's a lot of truth in the saying that you're better off to buy than to build.
-
At this point in time with any KF product, one would restore it for the love of the car, not for any profit to be made because there will probably be none. The only way to make money on a Kaiser would be to modify it into a fire breathing street machine or a low-rider or a rat-rod of some sort. Stock restorations are worth, as Roadmaster49 said, $10,000 to $15,000. A well executed street rod might bring $30,000 to $40,000, so there is room for profit there.
And there is no need to call anyone names or belittle their ideas for a project. We are all friends here, let's remember that.
As someone only part way through restoring an Aero, I can confirm that you are absolutely 100 percent correct, my car will NEVER be worth what it's taking to restore it. Sometimes I think it's the dumbest financial move I've ever made in my life and from a pragmatic view, it really is. On the other hand, it is a satisfying venture to see the rusty hulk I've drug around so many years being brought back to life, albeit rather slowly.
It's not just the resto guys either, more often than not, even the street rodders take a beating when selling their creations. There's a lot of truth in the saying that you're better off to buy than to build.
I have not revealed my total plan for owning a Kaiser, and will not until my project is complete, and bar my foolishness, it WILL be worth more than the prices I see.
-
I have bought and sold several cars that I restored so I had to give my 2 cents worth here, If anyone thinks they will buy a basket case and restore it for a profit they for the most part are wrong. You have to have a passion for what you are doing, your reward will be your accomplishment not money, if money comes along great, if not you can take pride in restoring "old American iron". I get reward from taking my car to a show and when a kid comes along (with their parents) that really admires your car allowing the kid to sit behind the wheel and have their parent take photos of them, the kid walks away beaming and my heart feels good, I may have converted a young person into a future car collector. Restore a car because you love to do that, they are only worth what they are worth to you!
-
Aeroman and MarkH
You are correct. Rick, no need to bash. I think Carpenter has a great car and it sounds like he will pick up the restoration now. It si interesting that a couple of 54 drivetrains have showed up lately for sale so he can complete his restoration.
The idea that we restore cars to make a profit is not in my wheelhouse. Especially on specifc marque websites like this one. If I had a KF and decided to sell it, I would probably sell at a loss to me. There is a sliding scale. If I owned the car for 5 years of enjoyment, then my price would be reduced by that ownership experience.
The closest I got to that was my 1949 Virginian. Had to part it out due to rough condition. Got most of the rare parts out and "sold" them to KF guys. My total offset meant I lost only about $500 on the whole deal and put some rare parts in the hands of the community.
I have seen quite a few nice KF cars offered for less then $2000. When I 1st became interested in adding an early Frazer, Jim L pointed me in the direction of one, in Michigan for about $1400 that had only 50,000 original miles.
When Carpenter decides to sell, I hope he can get his money back out, but I also think he might consider the idea that his ownership and enjoyment when it is running is worth something and adjust the price accordingly.
-
Roadmaster, I am sold on the Kaisers...54-55. I will eventually own one to keep, but for the present have a special project in mind. The car that I have I hope to keep instead of sell because it is so close to perfect in many ways. However, what happens to my income will determine what I do. Nothing wrong with making plans. I will not give away the one I have.
-
I took the tarp off today...one made specifically for this car...and entertained a lot of people driving by...and looking. Guy in motorcycle shop next door came over and took a good look. This is the one that was on the side of the building...Peterson Automotive Museum in Los Angles, and is painted bright red with a white top (not the correct colors, but red gets everyone's eyes). I've been able to keep it...nice solid, body with only hand size rust in both front floor boards. Anticipating enough income soon to really get to work on it.
-
See photos under General Information, topic "Just arrived".
-
I'm finding out one thing, in advertising my car for sale: people want a nice complete car for a nickel and dime price. In country terminology they are called "cheapskates"...a miserly person who does not want to pay a fair price. No wonder the price of Kaisers isn't up to what it should be. A true Kaiser lover would pay what a car is worth.
Carpenter
I have no grudge against you. Yet recently you made sure I understood that comments about pricing were in poor taste and had no place on the forum. You're comment here confirms what I have said about the market for KF, when compared to other makes. It's neither good nor bad, just an observation.
-
It is my understanding from a couple of KFOCI members - that the KF guys are on the cheap side. There are a LOT of significant KF's out there languishing away because no one will pay a little more to restore them. The Black Onyx Dragon and the 999/888 Dragon come to mind. The "last Kaiser built" has been available for years and no one in the club will pay the ransom.
On the other hand, you may have over paid for the car. I just lost about $3000 on selling my 1995 Mercedes SL500.
My message is consistent.
-
The high end value - real world not over inflated price guides - of a nice original or restored 54 Manhattan is $10,000 to $15,000. Even then, the buyers pool is quite small requiring a high marketing effort. That is, a well sorted, many high resolution photo ebay auction that would likely run for 6 months to find that "needle in a haystack" buyer.
Good luck with your restoration, it will be nice to see another one added to the thousands of 54 Kaisers left.
Thankful today for the extremely knowledgeable and gifted forum commenters to value our cars and the market in general.
"thousands of 54 Kaisers left?" Really? What planet do you live on?
HAPPY THANKSGIVING everyone!
Mike
Too bad you take everything so personal. In the time since this thread was active, several dozen more 54 Kaisers have been offered for sale including one very near to me here in Des Moines, Iowa.
I am just commenting on the market, and what I see out there, as a leisure coffee consuming morning activity. That is how I noticed so many 54 Kaisers still around, and for sale. I would say, I have seen very few in comparison - 1947 to 1948 Frazers. 1949 Frazers are rarely seen.
1952 Manhattans are rare. But, I often see 1953 KF's and a lot of 1954's. Perhaps in your part of the country, your observations are different. I certainly wouldn't denigrate you by saying "what planet are you on." If I personally offend you, please call me at 515-201-8490 and let's talk.