Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Forum
General Category => Henry J & Allstate Forum => Topic started by: jap tin on March 30, 2010, 06:53:21 PM
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My father in law was a Kaiser guy and has passed away. I now have a 1953 Allstate and a 1952 Henry J. The 52 was in my wifes family all her life and the 53 was picked up latter on. I have pictures of my wife with the 52 as a little girl and was thinking about restoring it instead of the Allstate. If you were to keep only one which one would you chose? I'm leaning toward the 52. The Henry J is a 4 cylinder and the Allstate is a 6 cylinder.
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I would do the 1953 Allstate. The production numbers for a 1953 Allstate is much (much) smaller than that of a 1952 Henry J.
I have a 1952 Henry J Vagabond Deluxe.
Best,
Mark
Sun City, AZ
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The Allstate is a scarce car but if the Henry J has been in the family since new and you have pictures of it I would have to restore that one. Why not do them both over time?
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Repeat after me...RESTORE THE ALLSTATE...RESTORE THE ALLSTATE...RESTORE THE ALLSTATE...!!
Some pix to encourage you...
http://kaiserfrazercars.com/allstdonelr.JPG
http://kaiserfrazercars.com/allstintdone2.JPG
http://kaiserfrazercars.com/allstengdone1a.JPG
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Pick a car and restore it then sell the other. It seems to be a coin flip. The Allstate is a rare car, but the HJ has your family ties.
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I have another picture of my wife on the seat of her Dad's 41 Harley with her sister on the tank with the 52 Henry J in the back ground along with their 53 Spartin mobil home. Still have all three, the Henry, Harley and Spartin, LOL.
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An Allstate 6 cylinder is a very rare car. A Henry J 4 cylinder is very easy to maintain. It's a tough choice but if you restore the Henry J, by all means make the Allstate available to someone who would restore it. It's a rare piece of automotive history.
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The Allstate is all decked out. Windshield visor, spot light , fog lights, coninental kit. I think my father in law had all the available goodies on it. Same with the Henry J, every do dad is on it. I may just restore the Henry J and sell the Allstate. My father in law was always afraid I would turn his cars into drag cars as I am a drag racer but I told him I would never do that.
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Is there any way we can all see some pictures of these cars?
Also can you provide Data Plate information and Serial Numbers on both of these cars?
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I know several people who have purchased Henry Js with the intention of turning them into streed rods and then changed their minds after finding out how easy they are to maintain in original condition and how much fun they are to drive that way. If your intent is to use it as an every day car, and drive on long trips, I could understand you wanting to "modernize" it as they do not maneuver the way today's cars do. If your intent is drive it to a few shows or cruise nights, I think you'll find that leaving it original is a lot of fun too.
I, and many others, are always here to offer assistance and insights. There's a lot of Henry J knowledge that visits this board. Mechanical parts are easier to find than most people might think, especially for the four cylinder cars as the Jeeps used that same engine from the 1940s to the 1960s.
Good luck and keep us updated.
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Does the Continental Kit have a cover on the tire? If so, what color is the cover and does it have any embroidery or other type of markings?
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I will go over today and get serial numbers off the cars.
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The 52 has 1036837 on the door jam. Under the hood tag model 513 body 4 paint 235 trim 3405 there is also a 1 and a 2 and a 315.
There is another 53 Henry J that my wife has that is 007707 on the door jam. Under hood tag model 534 body 4 paint 999 trim 888 then there is a 31 1 4 . There is also HJ 167 78 343.
The Allstate door jam 1000226. Under hood tag model 340 body 4 paint 110 trim 5620 then a 32 1 4 then 40 445. there is another tag above the large tag under the hood with 3404 2000228.
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The 999 and 888 codes are for special orders which makes that car of more than passing interest. I am sure others will comment on this.
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The serial number 1036837 indicates the car is a 1952 Vagabond model which were the leftover 1951s that didn't sell. They reserialed them and called them '52s. Pictures would be a great. If you send me some, I'll post them for you. Click my ID and it will display my e-mail
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I'd be interested in seeing pix of that Allstate. Paint code 110 indicates a Cardinal (red) car. Green and grey were other popular colors too. The '32' is probably in the IP slot, which means Interior Paint. 32 = Persian Gray. I don't have a good description for the 5620 (Interior Trim) so a picture or two of the interior would help us determine exactly what it should be.
40 and 445 are the Schedule and Item Numbers. This tells us when in the build year the car went down the line.
The smaller under hood tag carries the body number. Yours is 228. The serial and body numbers rarely matched.
3404 = 6 cylinder Allstate 2 door. If it was a 4 cylinder that number would be 3304.
Hope this helps!
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The Allstate is blue , so it has been painted along the way. The 53 Henry J with the 999 888 code is red with red leather interior but who knows what that was when it left the factory.
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With an 888 trim code, the leather could have been factory. With 999 and 888 codes there is something special about that car. I'd be interested in seeing photos of it.
I've got Edgar Kaiser's custom made Henry J here and it's got the 888 trim code with black pleated leather/vinyl interior.
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That all being the case, you should also have on the HJ body tag something at the header marked SPEC-FO. Can you check on the number?
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Would that tag be the one when you open the drivers door?
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It's the tag on the cowl under the hood. Here's the one for Edgar Kaiser's Henry J -
(https://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a3da02b3127ccef2ba7a902d3a00000030O01SatmLdmyB7efAA/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00203070160520130424033034117.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
Note, it says "SPEC-FO" just above where it says "Body Number." It has the 888 trim and 999 paint.
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Where yours says HJ-50 above the SPEC-FO this one says H.J.-167. The line above that goes.534 4 999 888 32 1 4 39. The line below H.J.-167 78 343
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My wife tells me that she thought that it was built by the factory for a show.
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After seeing the 999 paint code and 888 trim code, I have figured out that your late father in law is Merrill Williams. Some of the readers of this post may also be interested to know that he worked for a Kaiser-Frazer dealer in Chico, CA in the late fourties and early fifties. He was a true fan of KF cars and had and extensive collection of Henry J parts. Several years age I purchased some Henry J parts from him. What ever happened to all of the parts that he gathered over the years after he passed away?
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Kaiser-Frazer built a handful of show cars for 1952 and 1953 model years; they had leather upholstery and a paint color that was not on the standard list. The cars--both Kaiser and Henry J--were used to get people's attention and (towards the end of "the season") were offered for sale to show visitors or to dealers.
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Merrill was quite a guy. We had to move all his stuff from the property at Lakeport as the land was sold and devided between the girls. I got the 53 Allstate and the 52 Henry J down here to Visalia Calif. My wife allready had the 53 Henry J down here. My Dad passed away also and there is just too much stuff to do. Merrill had another hip replacement at Standford and had a stroke. We brought him to Visalia where he passed away.He was quite the charater, between Harleys and Kaisers, those were his passions.
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Got a chance to see the Red on Red HJ this weekend at the El Dorado Fall Meet.
DataPlate 534 4 999 888 ... H.J. 167 down in SPEC FO
The gentleman who has purchased it wants to restore it back to original.
He needs all the help he can get as it has been restored twice before.
Quite a mystery but there were photos of it all apart from one of the previous restorers.
The back seats are still leather in the 53 HJ style but inserts and all ... red leather.
Headliner, dash, front seat and door panels ... all in naugahyde.
Anyone with any information or paperwork on these Factory "Show" cars.
Reading Jacks comment below make it seem more like program to generate traffic in Dealer show rooms.
Sorry about the quality of the photos but it never came out of the trailer it was in.
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Just a couple more photos.
Seems this might qualify for a Class 16 - Factory Special for us in Puyallup 2014
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That is a cool and unique car. Kudos to the owner for wanting to keep it original. I take it you informed him of how unique it is?
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I think that is one cool car. Green, black, grey and blue HJs seem to abound...but I think I've only seen 2 other red ones. Very nice!
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Joe... my red 53 with gator interior.It was originally restored by Bob McBride and had the his first repro wiring harness. Not stock though.He used a Kaiser O.D relay. Each lead on the harness was numbered.I liked that a lot.
That last shot is my big butt. I bought the car in Mesa Arizona and the Barkers,father and son helped me load it to be towed back to SoCal.
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Is this not Dragon vinyl instead of "gator"?
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Probably,I just have always called it gator. I do'nt really know the difference.
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alligator vinyl is not the same as Dragon--Dragon has the distinctive rows of small oblong circles.
It was only available in '51 HJ and the full size Kaiser Dragons.
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Thanks Terry ,you are so right.Compare the front seat of my 53 to the seat in the blue51 from Longworth's book. The Gator is gorgeous!.