Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Forum
General Category => Darrin Forum => Topic started by: KFDarrin#164 on July 29, 2017, 06:40:48 PM
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Anybody know if 3D Printing for Darrin parts, i.e. trunk hinges, door handles.. has been researched? Or does anyone have the CAD specs on any parts.. chiefly the trunk hinges?
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KFDarrin#164, I am in the process of getting a quote to have a door handle 3D printed in stainless steel. I work in the aviation industry and we have had parts 3D printed in aluminum with great results. I am waiting for information from a firm about 50 miles from me about having the part 3D scanned as the first step. I mentioned that there are many parts that could be replicated such as the trunk hinges and maybe even the trunk script. I will keep you in the loop. Steve (324darrin)
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Well, I have heard back from the 3D printers. The news is not good. first they need a 3D scan as was mentioned before and that runs about $300. Then they can manufacture the part (door handle in my case) for about $1200. So now were are looking at a $1500 door handle. I think not. My contact indicated that the price gets better if they can make in quantity but not much better.
So unless someone out there has their own equipment, 3D printing may not be in the cards. Steve
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I was given different contact info for a start-up 3D company in the Portland, Oregon area. His operation will be up and running at the end of this month or early in September. We spoke on the phone and he agreed to help me through the process of scanning and then the actual printing in stainless steel of my door handle. Just posting to let you know that the idea of 3D printing is not dead yet. He indicated that he would give me a break on the price since they will be working the bugs out of their operation. So we shall see. Steve
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Following this :-)
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would this ss handle be chrome plated?
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Thanks SO MUCH for the updates. Yes, Please keep us all informed on how the progress goes. Restorations of many cars, the Darrin included will die if the technology will not be there to help, but it will have to be affordable. Preaching to the choir...
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The door handles in stainless, if this pans out, will not be plated. They will be highly polished. Plating on stainless steel does require different pretreatment than plating on steel, but it is certainly not impossible. Steve
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Just sent my one remaining door handle to the 3D printer this morning. A leap of faith here that I get it back or better yet, a nice new set. He will take it to his scanner guy for the 3D scan soon. It will be a while before I know anything about cost. If anyone is interested in a pair or a single, I understand that as many spaces as there are room for in the printer box can be made all at the same time. I don't know how many that would be but it makes sense to have as many made as possible. The cost goes down slightly in quantity but not much. I am willing to put the money up front but would like to know if there is any interest. Nothing is in stone yet so even if you express an interest, there is no obligation. Steve
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Interested as I will be (hopefully) tearing into the body next year.
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3D printing company received my door handle. They are waiting for the county to allow them to occupy the building. All of their machinery has been delivered and is being held in temporary storage. It seems that my door handle job will be the first one to come from their new facility.
I have a question for anyone who has seen a Darrin door handle and the cross drilled hole(s) for the pin. My handle has two holes drilled at right angles to each other. Is this the way the factory did this or do I have one that someone added a hole to, in order to change the handle position? This info would be of great help because the 3D programmer has the capability of filling or smoothing any blemish or unwanted holes before the actual printing process takes place. Thanks, Steve
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Not sure what the second hole is for but all of my handles have them.
Lee
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Jake, I can't tell if your handle has been drilled at 90 degrees. Drilling the pin hole makes sense though. Thanks to all replies. Steve
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So, if all handles are cross drilled with two pin positions, which one is actually used to secure the handle? Steve
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Time drags on. My contact at the 3D printing company told me that they are behind schedule and that it looks to be November before they are ready to test their equipment. No real news here, just an update on the progress. Steve
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Here is the latest on my adventure into the world of 3D printing. My 3D printing guy sent me an image of the completed 3D model of the Darrin door handle (see photo). He said that the scan was very successful and the part is scheduled to be made the week of November 13th. Just an update for all of you that are interested in this. I asked him to make as many as he could fit on the platform. He thought that 6 or so would fit. I still have no idea what the final cost will be but I have to have one so not pushing him on cost. Steve
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They look great! Once plated they will look like NOS!
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These are going to be made of stainless steel. They can be plated but I'm going with polished. Steve
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They will not need plating, just polishing and they should be much stronger than the originals.
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with the 3D scan of the actual, the holes should be in place during the print process...
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The door handles have been printed in stainless steel. They have been sent to the polishers and I should have them soon. Here are three pics. one of the scan, one of the part in the printer and one complete. This is a start-up operation and has taken longer that anticipated but the owner is really easy to work with. No word on price yet. Steve
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OK. Don't know why the other two pics did not attach. Will try again. Steve
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If it's not here it's not because I didn't try. Steve
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very nice!
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Can't wait to hear about price!!!
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I'm impressed!
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why 2 pair of holes for cross pin?
original had only one set.
estimated cost per handle?
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The cost should be around $350.00 - $450.00 each..
Let me understand your response to my question...So, you are making these handles?
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Just throwing this out there as I've jumped into research on the process (far from an expert)...Ive spoken to a few Big companies that Jay Leno deals with...the average cost I've encountered is $500 per vertical inch...that is not including the length(with a general consideration a first or singular part being roughly $1000 is a good base line)...It also depends on how many parts can be run at the same time on the tray which can reduce the cost of the additional items...so total cost is fairly pricey yet as this is a fairly new process in the metal printing. Competition and time will eventually reduce the cost, but not by much as plastic printing is still not cheap, but has come down slightly.
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why 2 pair of holes for cross pin?
original had only one set.
estimated cost per handle?
It seems logical that drilling for two sets of pins would weaken the shaft part of the handle but maybe in stainless it will not be a problem.
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Hmmm...seems, another member has completed the process🤔
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Hmmm...seems, another member has completed the process🤔
Yes, and 324darrin has shown pictorial proof of the product.
Much better than unfulfilled promises. ;)
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If it's not here it's not because I didn't try. Steve
It appears from the pic that much post-mold polishing would need to be done to get an acceptable finish.
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Jake, I'm confused by this signature from your current posts:
Member #7416 Since June 1990
NO Club..
Just a lone wolf..
Are you a member of KFOCI? If not, then you don't have a member #. If you are, then you do.
???
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Terry, there was a rather thorough discussion regarding the cross drilled holes in the door handles on page one of this thread. You're thoughts are that there should only be one hole but another member indicated that all of his handles have two holes as mine do. So this raises the question or maybe indicates that they were produced both ways. Regardless of the number of holes, the strength of stainless steel should negate the issue of breakage.
Jake, where did you come up with your cost per handle? have you been in contact with the printing company that I have been dealing with. Please don't muddy the water here with conjecture. I am as anxious an anyone to find out the cost. I will let you know what it is when I know and anyone that is interested can work directly with the printing company. I am not in this to line my pockets nor do I want to be the middle man. Thanks, Steve
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Steve...Thanks again for your efforts on the handles! I'll be one of those in line:-) @Terry, I included a picture of something Adam sent me awhile back. Demonstrates the rough part and polished side by side. It is a pretty remarkable process...If I recall this pic was formed in plastic.
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Terry, there was a rather thorough discussion regarding the cross drilled holes in the door handles on page one of this thread. You're thoughts are that there should only be one hole but another member indicated that all of his handles have two holes as mine do. So this raises the question or maybe indicates that they were produced both ways. Regardless of the number of holes, the strength of stainless steel should negate the issue of breakage.
Jake, where did you come up with your cost per handle? have you been in contact with the printing company that I have been dealing with. Please don't muddy the water here with conjecture. I am as anxious an anyone to find out the cost. I will let you know what it is when I know and anyone that is interested can work directly with the printing company. I am not in this to line my pockets nor do I want to be the middle man. Thanks, Steve
I still do not understand what the other set of holes are for.
Looking at the mechanism, if one uses those holes, the handle would be installed 90 deg. orientation from using the original holes. One would need to index the square shaft 90 deg. to get the handle in either a forward or rearward orientation.
What am I missing.. why are they needed?
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Terry, I am as perplexed as you about the cross drilled holes. The fact remains that they were manufactured both ways. I agree that it does not make any sense due to indexing in the correct position not to mention how the extra hole affects the integrity of the material. Unless there is documented evidence from Kaiser regarding their reasoning, we may never know the why of it. Steve
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It looks like the door handles will be ready later this week. I have been invited to tour the 3D lab and then peruse a 30 car collection owned by the father of the 3D lab. With their permission, I will take photos. My son has taken a day off work to join me on this field trip. Very excited. Steve
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That sounds like an awesome experience and a great potential story for the Bulletin:-)
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Or a better story for the Quarterly!
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Looks like I need to get a part time job if I'm going to keep getting parts made with the 3D process.
Here is the response I got when I asked about the cost.
"Here's a breakdown showing what you would typically pay for these parts:
3D Scanning: $265.80
3D Printing: $790.50 each
Polishing: $150 each
Total: $2,146.80
3D printing is an expensive process. I obviously will not charge you anywhere close to this amount since I never provided you with a quote and was using the parts as a training exercise. I want you to see the parts and be happy with them. I am thinking $500 each, $1,000 total would be fair. Let me know if this sounds about right to you...."
I was not prepared for that amount but feel locked in and obligated to pay him for his services. so tomorrow I am going to go out and see the lab and pick them up. I do not see having any more parts done by the 3D process. this set me back a bit so the gas tank cleaning will have to wait until next month. Steve
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Thanks for the information. I think, over time, the cost to do any 3D work will come down...remember when a new VCR cost $1200 or more and the price of a flat screen TV of any size was astronomical? Like any commodity, once folks figure how to do it better, it'll get cheaper.
Until then, I guess we'll have to find someone who still does brass or pot metal casting.
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I have not followed up on this. The original idea was to make 3D printing available to the public as well as courses in working with same.I would love to make a 3 prong, 1953 Henry J hood ornament tip!
https://www.floridatoday.com/story/news/2016/08/19/new-library-lab-3d-printer-open/88989000/
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To be honest...I was expecting just slightly more from the research and networking I’ve been doing, but that breakdown falls into everything I’ve encountered. On a positive...the scanning does not need to be done again( Will they share the CAD file? Nice way to get a copy of the CAD file for club records?) ...and as the other companies mentioned(as with any parts) a price break only occurs with quantity printing per tray, not so much as a piece at a time. I need to schedule a few more summer festival gigs to collect my funny money;-) Thank you again for following through with the process!
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Looks like I need to get a part time job if I'm going to keep getting parts made with the 3D process.
Here is the response I got when I asked about the cost.
"Here's a breakdown showing what you would typically pay for these parts:
3D Scanning: $265.80
3D Printing: $790.50 each
Polishing: $150 each
Total: $2,146.80
3D printing is an expensive process. I obviously will not charge you anywhere close to this amount since I never provided you with a quote and was using the parts as a training exercise. I want you to see the parts and be happy with them. I am thinking $500 each, $1,000 total would be fair. Let me know if this sounds about right to you...."
I was not prepared for that amount but feel locked in and obligated to pay him for his services. so tomorrow I am going to go out and see the lab and pick them up. I do not see having any more parts done by the 3D process. this set me back a bit so the gas tank cleaning will have to wait until next month. Steve
I would think that an additional task/cost would be to have the handle chrome plated.
If it wasn't, there would be a mismatch of appearance to the chrome handle bezel that it butts against.
We can get away with stainless steel medallion "k's" since they are mounted up against plastic.
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This was an interesting technical achievement and demonstrates another method to reproduce unobtainable parts. Like anything where you reach out ahead of the "curve", the cost increases. The printer was nice to reduce the price and for a "one off" pair, maybe not too far out from what a cast pair would cost, especially in stainless. You certainly won't ever have to worry about the pitting, corroding or weakening issues of the originals.
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The door handles have been printed in stainless steel. They have been sent to the polishers and I should have them soon. Here are three pics. one of the scan, one of the part in the printer and one complete. This is a start-up operation and has taken longer that anticipated but the owner is really easy to work with. No word on price yet. Steve
what are the diameters of the 2 sets of holes?
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I am very happy with the 3D printed door handles. I asked for the scan file and received it via email. There are 813 pages of code for the part. To say that it is a complicated process would be an understatement. I would like to donate the file to the club for future use in manufacturing the handles when and if the price settles down. If that is amenable to the club, who would be the caretaker of the information? Steve
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGMxb8bfDTI
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Neat video, are you getting a kickback for each view of the video? :D
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Neat video, are you getting a kickback for each view of the video? :D
If you know how to get a kickback on someone else's video, let us all know!
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Wow, I did not know that they were going to use the handles as an advertisement. Pretty cool. Steve
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If you know how to get a kickback on someone else's video, let us all know!
Figured that since the company is using Steve's handles as advertisement, maybe he should be getting a little something back! ;D
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What I received for my effort was a couple of expensive door handles and the 3D file that purportedly cost $265. I still have not heard if the club wants the file. Maybe I'm in the wrong forum. I'll post in the Manufacturing Fund forum. Steve
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As Darrin manager, I can give it a home.
Living in Detroit area, I am surrounded by 3-D shops, in fact one has a picnic during the Woodward Dream Cruise time and I go every year with my Darrin to see their projects.
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Terry, the 3D File is on its way to you. Steve
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thanks very much
it will have a good home with a dog and 3 cats