Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Forum
General Category => Kaiser Forum => Topic started by: JoeKeys2010 on September 17, 2013, 04:46:40 PM
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I'd like to paint my 1949 Kaiser back to the original color which was Caribbean Coral. it appears that the original color is in the door jams, trunk and dash but I am not sure if that the color in those parts are Caribbean Coral or not. I have looked at pant chips on the internet but I'm not sure.
My first question would be were the insides of the car originally painted the same as the exterior or did they mix and match exterior and interior colors? If the answer is that the insides were painted the same color as the outside then I have something to go by.
My next question would be has anyone had an experience with mixing the paint and if so where did you get the formula from?
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Original paint chips are available for all years of Kaisers and Frazers on line. If your door jambs or trunk area still have good samples of original color take it to your local paint shop and have them make the paint for you. They are experts at color matching.
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I took my 53K to my local Sherwin Williams automotive finishes dealer and they used a spectrometer to match the paint. The gadget was simply held up to a spot on the car with original paint and in 5 minutes they found a formula. It turns out that Cardinal red is the same as the red used on 1967 Fiats.
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Cardinal Red was also a 1970's Chevy Truck color under a different name.
Remember that Caribbean Coral varies in hue and shade based on supplier and year. They also weather over time. It used to be we would have 5 or 6 1951 Kaisers at a meet which were Caribbean Coral per the firewall plate but looked different shades:all were billed as original paintjobs (this was in the 1970's).
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Well no one answered the question so I'll take a shot at it.
were the insides of the car originally painted the same as the exterior or did they mix and match exterior and interior colors? If the answer is that the insides were painted the same color as the outside then I have something to go by.
We had a '49 Kaiser deluxe "Bermuda Tan" which is a light tan color as the name implies. The dash was a dark brown, much darker than the exterior paint on the car so no, the interior paint is not necessarily the same as the exterior.
I have a friend here who has a Caribbean Coral '51 Henry J which has been reupholstered years ago. The paint code calls for Caribbean Coral and the trim code is for Cape Verde green dinosaur vinyl! What a combination but I've seen others with that configuration too. The original paint that's on his firewall is a deep metallic maroon hue which I think is amazing.
Jerry Johnson's '52 Henry J Vagabond is Caribbean Coral:
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a2d729b3127ccef144cf46b87700000050O01SatmLdmyB7efAA/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00203070160520120908233738991.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
and so is John Pitzer's '49 Kaiser -
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a3d736b3127ccef4766ec3e9b300000030O01SatmLdmyB7efAA/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00203070160520130918030356675.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
I don't recall what the interior colors are in John P's car but the Caribbean Coral is darker than the J. I don't think either one has original paint on it.
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Looking at the photos my door jams are close but different to the Henry J and it is hard to tell on the Kaiser because its n the shade. I can find paint chips but not sure if someone can mix paint based on a chip. My car is painted tan and has a good paint job. I'm reprinting it because I want it as original as I can. So I want to make sure I get the right color.
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The underside (inside) of the deck lid is often a good place to find original, non-faded paint.
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Find a PPG/DuPont paint dealer in the automotive paint section of the yellow pages. they can get the EXACT PAINT FORMULA from the PPG library. The CODE FOR Caribbean Coral 1951 and 1952 Kaiser products is Ditzco Quickset enamel (DQE 50197) THE paint can also be matched at stores handling NASON brand paint they have the cross reference's I have a copy of the Kaiser paint codes on disk that the pain store loaned me from the PPG libraryand a book on the color chips. that is where this info came from.
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Thanks that is helpful. Do you know if the paint code is the same for a 1949?
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Off topic a little but we got a new Buick in that had a light blue paint job and a lime green interior. The company paid us to repaint it.
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I found a formula in an old NAPA book but they can't cross reference it to modern paint. On my way to see a PPG rep tomorrow to see what he can come up with. The dash is deffinately a different color. Looks more dark brown than carabbean coral.
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An original carribean Kf car has almost no chance of matching the original color. The red pigment in the early 50's is notorious for fading and oxidixing. Carribean coral might just be the worst. I have seen a score of HJs in carribean coral over the years. Most of them have faded to markedly brown over the paint chip.The use of a spectometer at the paint dealer is solely dependant on where they take the measurment. If it was me, I would look at recent cars in carribean coral, try to match the chip and use the formula for the recent car.The pigments used in the old formulas aint there any more. The ones they would use are supposed to be "equivalent". It aint my first rodeo wnen it comes to painting old cars.
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Well I'm not sure. I hope to get some form of Caribbean coral on it and will go by what's in the trunk.
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Carribean Coral:
1) The 49/50 color is not quite the same as the 51 color.
2) The paint chips I have seen listed the color as a "factory mixed" color meaning the paint came mixed from the paint company and the local jobber could not mix it because they didn't have the mixing colors.
3) Yes, it does fade out. On my 51 Deluxe, the body turned brown while the package tray turned silver.
4) I had even started painting my car an easier color (a 1976 Dodge metallic Rust color) but really, the paint choice is important to a KF product. KF couldn't offer engineering innovations like the Big 3, but they could be innovative with the paint and upholstery.
5) I watched cars on the highway for over 2 years trying to get an idea for a later color that could be mixed by a local jobber. I finally settled on a 1976 Cadillac color - Fire Mist Chermise. I made the match based on the back of 2 1951 instrument clusters.
6) When you paint your car, don't expect total agreement on the fidelity of the color. As an example, at the Burlington KF National, there were 5 53 Dragons that were painted velvet Maroon. In the noon day sun, 2 of the cars matched what I thought the color should be and matched each other very well. 1 was a little off but the worst looked like it had a good shot of brown in it.
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Cardinal:
I think the 70s Chevy Truck color Jack is thinking of is called Primrose. The price of paint (within substrate types such as synthetic enamel vs acrylic) is based on the cost of the pigment. White is cheapest while Red and Green are the most expensive. For some reason, this Primrose was much cheaper than a real maroon color so I painted my brother's 50 Studebaker Champion W5 with it instead a real maroon. I think it looked brighter than the correct paint, but not that much.
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I have an original '49 Kaiser paint / upholstery showroom album. I would be willing to take it to a local paint jobber for a scan. Let me know if I can help.
http://images16.fotki.com/v258/photos/5/1449415/10384280/100_1587-vi.jpg
custom
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I live in rural South Georgia so finding someone who know what a Kaiser is can be a challenge let alone someone who can mix Caribbean Coral. I am the plant manager at a large Railcar repair facility and spray a lot of paint so I have some in roads with PPG. I used a base coat clear coat in Guardsman blue and loved how the paint went on and the finish looked. The setup retailed for about &900 a gallon. I want my Kaiser the correct color but did not realize it would be this difficult. I own several mid 60 Fords and it's not that difficult to get the right color.
If the Cadillac color is so close no one could tell it would probably be easy to get that mixed. But I don't want it if someone who knows what he is looking at knows it's not right. I have trunk and door jams as a guide but not sure how close someone can mix off of that.
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Go to TCP Global's online site. They have all the paint chips and formulae for everything, going back to buggies. I recently got some 53K Australian beige and sabre jet blue from them and they are an exact match for paint on my car that was never exposed to light (undersides of window frames etc.) The paint also goes on nicely and is relatively inexpensive. The problem with having someone use a scanner to figure out what you have is that if you don't bring a sample that has always been in the dark the color will be wrong, and if you do the scanners are not perfect and have variations so the color may still be wrong.
TCP got everything ready in a couple of days and shipped it UPS. The only thing to be aware of is that the chip colors they show online are not that accurate, due to inability of scanners and computer monitors to duplicate that closely. Both my colors were off on my monitor, but the real paint I got was right. Actually they inform you not to take what you see on the screen too literally. I'd suggest this as the easiest way to get the right color. I have heard from owners of other makes that the color matching is also very accurate for their cars.
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The Henry J that I bought was in pieces and had already been painted. It was missing its glove box door. I took the front splash pan off by the front bumper. Our local PPG painter scanned the front pan and came out with perfect match.
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Shading paint has always been an inexact science. Scanners and computers have helped, but it still comes down to a trained eye knowing what it takes to build a color. Many years go, I was a shader for a company now owned by Sherwin Williams and we had to pass a four part test to be allowed to shade earth tones. I had to apprentice under a master shader and eventually, I was permitted to shade any color. I'm sure even today, a human eye is used to ensure batches of paint match one another from a master chip.
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The human eye, coupled with a spectrometer has long been the "test" for paint colors and shades; an issue of KAISER-FRAZER DEALER NEWS talks about inspection at the plant to try and maintain consistency of color and other tests used to verify durability of the paint for color hold. My best suggestion is to contact your local PPG jobber and bring in the original color name and the paint # off your firewall tag (there was some change in composition & resulting shade in some cases, between model years). The jobber can get a current mix formula from the PPG Color Library. They take their master paint chip and run it through their computer spectrometer. The jobber gets the mixing information from the Color Library at no charge (it is part of factory support of the jobber) but it not supposed to pass on the mixing formula to the customer. They do this for various makes of old cars and trucks and as far as I am aware there have been no instances where the information is innaccurate.
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I went to the TPC Global site and according to them they can mix the color in their brand or PPG. They can mix it as lacquer or enamel or base coat. If what they say is true my search is over for the right color.
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Jack's spot on with his advice on PPG 2 posts ago. That's exactly what my PPG jobber did...contacted the factory in Pittsburgh...took about a week but the color (Jade Tint) came back perfect. Apparently they have the original chips stored in climate controlled environments.
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I went to PPG with a glove box and a paint chip I bought off of Ebay. I was looking for about a quart of paint to paint the firewall with. While under the front fenders I found much of the original color toward the rear of the well. When I put some of the new paint on my finger and touched it against what was under the fenders it matched perfectly.
Very please with the color and cant wait until I paint the entire body. Thanks for all of the help on this one.
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Great!
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Guys, is it possible to have a list of all available paint colors back then for 1951 Kaisers? Thanks !
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Explore this site for some KF Colors.
http://circlekf.com/kfcars/colors.htm (http://circlekf.com/kfcars/colors.htm)
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Was asked for a few under hood shots of a 49 or 50K.
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Some follow up...the glass jar pictured in the b/w photo is for a windshield washer kit. KF offered it as an accessory installed at the dealership. It used engine vacuum to draw fluid from the reservoir when a under dash button was pressed. Nozzles installed at the wiper base did the rest of the work.
Also attached is a right side pic of a 49-50 2bbl engine...however the engine painted the wrong color. The 2 bbl engine should be light green.
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the vacuum line running from the fuel pump to the wiper motor, is the way it is supposed ran? I thought I read somewhere the line is supposed to be medal up to a point and then turns to a rubber line. I have a medal line coming off the fuel pump through the manifolds and then bending toward the fire wall. Is that correct or not?
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What you have is correct.
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Sent the car off today to have it painted!
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Great Joe...can't wait to see it!!! Too few KF cars being restored these days. You're doing a beautiful job on this one!! 8)
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Ditto what Mike said.
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I've removed the interior so I had to sit on a bucket to drive it to the paint shop. It was about a 45 minute drive. Even sitting on a bucket it was enjoyable to drive it. I haven't painted a car in some years and given the metallic in the paint I decided to farm the paint job out. Can't wait to get it back. Seats are coming along nicely but slow.
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I can not wait to see the finish seats and paint job on the car.
Mark
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I've removed the interior so I had to sit on a bucket to drive it to the paint shop.
Imagine that, a Kaiser with bucket seats!
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Not seats.....just seat. Lol!
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Oh to have a car that solid to start with!
I tried the bucket thing when moving my 47K parts car around. The bucket went thru the floor...I now have a Flintstone-mobile!
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Can't wait to see it. post pictures when you pick it up. How long to paint it?
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I have an upper leg. The guy painting it also works for me so he has a vested interest in keeping it moving. I expect it will take a month. I hope to get out of it for about. 1,500.