Author Topic: 51 Frazer (but it could be Kaiser) will not move under load w/o dying  (Read 3068 times)

Doc

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It's been over four months now since I've posted about this car.  We were down for three months until we got a replacement axle shaft in the car from Rudy Phillips and got a new exhaust system on it. Two other things were supposed to have been done at a particular local shop relative to body work, but after nothing had been for two months, I went and got the car, which was an "interesting event" I must say. But to the problem. This car just will not move forward or backward under any load, like a ramp or small hill. It will idle ok and rev up ok and on a flat surface will move, but it is underwhleming. Up a hill forget it.
As you "may" recall from previous postings last year, the engine has been totally rebuilt with all new parts including carburetor, fuel pump, distributor components, plugs, wires, gas tank cleaned, filters, brakes, all that stuff. Timing checked. The choke plate is functioning and this is the second rebuilt carburetor on the car and no change in characteristics. The car will start and idle nut even after a 15-20 minute warmup with choke plate fully open, drop it Drive or Reverse, apply the pedal and the car dies. Any ideas?  Very frustrating!
'54 Manhattan
'54 Late Special
'51 Frazer sedan

Fid

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Re: 51 Frazer (but it could be Kaiser) will not move under load w/o dying
« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2010, 09:43:35 PM »
I saw the reply on the other forum and that's likely the issue but... Since the car sat a while and through the winter, it could be stuck wheel cylinders but they'd have to be really stuck and both of them. Anyway, if you want to check, put the car in neutral and jack each wheel up, one at a time and make sure it turns freely with no drag.
« Last Edit: March 24, 2010, 10:14:31 PM by Fid »
1953 Henry J Corsair Deluxe
Edgar Kaiser's custom 1951 Henry J
1951 Kaiser Special
1952 Allstate Deluxe

Need your classic car radio repaired? I repair vacuum tube radios

Doc

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Re: 51 Frazer (but it could be Kaiser) will not move under load w/o dying
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2010, 10:13:48 PM »
Right back brake temporalily locked up but fixed and the car rolls very freely.  I just need to know how the tranny can be checked as the culprit.
'54 Manhattan
'54 Late Special
'51 Frazer sedan

lacyf

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Re: 51 Frazer (but it could be Kaiser) will not move under load w/o dying
« Reply #3 on: March 19, 2010, 11:14:20 AM »
  my two cents worth.......had this problem once,,,in my case it was a defective coil wire,,,,,,

Doc

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Re: 51 Frazer (but it could be Kaiser) will not move under load w/o dying
« Reply #4 on: March 19, 2010, 11:42:13 AM »
OK, worth checking. Just because it's new doesn't mean it's working correctly, even a wire.
'54 Manhattan
'54 Late Special
'51 Frazer sedan

Doc

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Re: 51 Frazer (but it could be Kaiser) will not move under load w/o dying
« Reply #5 on: March 19, 2010, 06:38:05 PM »
Hey Guys I really appreciate all the help. I have the problem solved and it's back to basics and a bit embarrasing. During the process of trying to get this car running, we had the vacuum advance disconnected and a plug in the bottom of the carburetor vacuum source. I found the plug that was installed in the bottom front of the carburetor was gone! You cannot see it unless you get down low and look. I overlooked it. Since it was sucking air and with the engine running I did not realize the opening was open to ambient air. When I installed a plug, the car started up immediately and idled well. I then took it out and up the driveway hill three times including the first time the car has shifted into 3rd. What a relief! Again, I appreciate all the suggestions and the dialog is what provided me incentive to go look again. Thanks. Tranny appears just fine and the car is finally driveable.
'54 Manhattan
'54 Late Special
'51 Frazer sedan

Fid

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Re: 51 Frazer (but it could be Kaiser) will not move under load w/o dying
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2010, 10:21:33 PM »
I just checked back on this as I was curious if it your issue was solved.  It's great when it turns out to be something like this.  We've all done it. I remember I painted the head on my Henry J back in '02 and put everthing back on it and it when I started it up it ran like crap. Backfired, belched, would not run smooth. I checked points, vacuum advance, the coil...  finally I figured it had to be the plugs so I set off to get a new set.  On my way home it dawned on me... something I had done before; I had put the plug wires back on the cap in reverse order.  The rotor turns counter-clockwise on the J and our "right thinking" brains sometimes overpower our memory and just assume everything turns clockwise.  It was good to put those wires in the correct order and have that car running like a top again. Happens to the best of us.
1953 Henry J Corsair Deluxe
Edgar Kaiser's custom 1951 Henry J
1951 Kaiser Special
1952 Allstate Deluxe

Need your classic car radio repaired? I repair vacuum tube radios

hollenway

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Re: 51 Frazer (but it could be Kaiser) will not move under load w/o dying
« Reply #7 on: March 25, 2010, 06:59:43 AM »
My guess is the car is 180 degrees out of time......   Try it and see if it helps.....

Doc

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Re: 51 Frazer (but it could be Kaiser) will not move under load w/o dying
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2010, 09:34:45 PM »
Update. Turns out plugging the open vacuum port did not fix the problem. I guess I made it up the hill because the car was fully warmed up and I kept my foot on the accelerator pedal rather vigorously. Turns out it's the timing. I tossed the timing light and hooked up a vacuum gauge and got only 17" Hg indicating retarded timing. I tried moving each plug wire one slot advanced and then adjusting the distributot back CW to compensate but based on the limitations of the distributor setup, that reduced the vacuum to just 14" and the car barely idled. I finally took the Dremel tool and elongated the passenger side bracket hole to allow the additional movement of the bracket and was able to get 19-20" vaccum and then up the hills with no problem. There was NO way to configure this distributor as on my other three '51 Frazers. The vaccum advance is rotated much more to the firewall than the others which point more towards the front of the car. Never had such a difficult time getting timing adjusted. And there is no room for any additional fine tuning until I replace my burned out Dremel tool and ream the other end of the elongated hole out some to allow further adjustment. At least now I think I finally have the care driveable, but then I thought that before.  I really dislike that two slotted adjustment distributor.
'54 Manhattan
'54 Late Special
'51 Frazer sedan

kaiserfrazerlibrary

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Re: 51 Frazer (but it could be Kaiser) will not move under load w/o dying
« Reply #9 on: April 03, 2010, 03:12:44 PM »
Just for the heck of it, a question...

What is the make/model and serisl number of the distributor?

Doc

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Re: 51 Frazer (but it could be Kaiser) will not move under load w/o dying
« Reply #10 on: April 03, 2010, 10:05:04 PM »
I'll try to look that up.  Yesterday we got the hood on the car and it fits very well but no springs yet, so I'll need to prop it up well to tell.  Be back with the info in a day two.
'54 Manhattan
'54 Late Special
'51 Frazer sedan

Doc

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Re: 51 Frazer (but it could be Kaiser) will not move under load w/o dying
« Reply #11 on: April 04, 2010, 06:40:23 PM »
Auto Lite Distributor, IGS-4214 - 2P all that's discernible.
'54 Manhattan
'54 Late Special
'51 Frazer sedan