Author Topic: Overdrive wiring.  (Read 8923 times)

boatingbill

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Overdrive wiring.
« on: March 02, 2012, 07:04:23 PM »
My '51 Kaiser has a non working overdrive. The shop manual wiring schematic does not show the
wiring or OD components. I am guessing the OD relay is mounted to the firewall above the engine.
The electrical section of the shop manual has a small drawing showing the OD relay as wired to the
ignition coil and the starter solenoid. I have no wires on the coil or starter solenoid going to this
relay on the firewall. Is this correct for a '51 or has someone  removed wires over the years? Any
help would be appreciated to verify or repair the wiring. I must have the 4:55 rear end because at
50 mph the motor screams, so I need to get the OD working. Help!

HJ-ETEX

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Re: Overdrive wiring.
« Reply #1 on: March 02, 2012, 07:48:58 PM »
Mr Bill:
You have not read your Shop Manual throughly!  Look on Section 15 Page 309 of the 1951 Shop Manual for a basic OD wiring diagram. Illustrations on other pages of this publication suggest where the vital components are located.
It is not unusual for non-OD cars to have engines with OD installed because they were cheap used cars. If you think you are missing a number of the components, I would suggest you go to a car meet that has a Kaiser with OD to see what an installation looks like.
BTW, there are early (1947-50) and late (1951-55) OD relays so a 1951 Kaiser may have either an early or late relay. Almost all cars with OD produced in the US after WWII used Borg-Warner units so you don't need to rely on KF diagrams or use KF parts.
There is a special KF service publication concerning OD service & troubleshooting and it appears to be a rebranded Borg-Warner document.
KFOCI VP 2001-2005
1951 Kaiser Deluxe /327 Chevy
1951 Kaiser Deluxe (no funny stuff)
1968 Kaiser Commando V6
1961 Willys 2WD 134 F-Head SW
1963 Kaiser FC170

Fid

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Re: Overdrive wiring.
« Reply #2 on: March 02, 2012, 08:14:42 PM »
Bill, see this photo. The OD relay is the square silver "box" on the firewall, right of center (when looking at this photo) behind the engine

I've never seen the old style relay on a '51 Kaiser but it's certainly possible. It would be black with a vertical fuse.
Either one will have 4 wires coming out (the typical one in the photo has a white plug, the older style will have them bolted on) two thicker and two thin. One thick one goes straight to the battery which is connected to the starter solenoid. One thin one will go to the hot side of the coil.
Here's the wiring diagram -


If your car doesn't have that relay, it doesn't have overdrive.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2016, 11:52:02 AM by Fid »
1953 Henry J Corsair Deluxe
Edgar Kaiser's custom 1951 Henry J
1951 Kaiser Special
1952 Allstate Deluxe

Need your classic car radio repaired? I repair vacuum tube radios

HJ-ETEX

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Re: Overdrive wiring.
« Reply #3 on: March 02, 2012, 08:40:18 PM »
Lowell didn't mention the bulge above the relay on the firewall. That bulge is to fit the large chassis radios used in pre-1951 cars into the new 51 bodies. Kaisers in the later part of the production year did away with the bulge.
KFOCI VP 2001-2005
1951 Kaiser Deluxe /327 Chevy
1951 Kaiser Deluxe (no funny stuff)
1968 Kaiser Commando V6
1961 Willys 2WD 134 F-Head SW
1963 Kaiser FC170

HJ-ETEX

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Re: Overdrive wiring.
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2012, 08:56:56 PM »
And this is a time to mention fuse problems with OD relays. As Lowell pointed out, the early relays had upright fuses. Later relays had fuses that were horizontal. As the components get older, things don't slide as well as they did back in 1947. If you have an operating OD, look at your ammeter when the OD engages and you might see the needle jump over to -30 amps and then back to neutral or +. IF you had a regular buss fuse, you just burned it out. If you have a problem with the fuse burning out on your relay you need either a "slow blo" fuse or a circuit breaker of appropriate amperage since the high current draw is for a short time.  Circuit breakers that are plug in replacements for buss fuses in the later relays are available but unfortunately there isn't any plug in replacements for the upright fuses on the early relays.
KFOCI VP 2001-2005
1951 Kaiser Deluxe /327 Chevy
1951 Kaiser Deluxe (no funny stuff)
1968 Kaiser Commando V6
1961 Willys 2WD 134 F-Head SW
1963 Kaiser FC170

HJ-ETEX

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Re: Overdrive wiring.
« Reply #5 on: March 02, 2012, 08:59:50 PM »
Correction: Bulge above the cylinder head and to the center of the car from the OD relay in reference to the radio bulge.
KFOCI VP 2001-2005
1951 Kaiser Deluxe /327 Chevy
1951 Kaiser Deluxe (no funny stuff)
1968 Kaiser Commando V6
1961 Willys 2WD 134 F-Head SW
1963 Kaiser FC170

Fid

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Re: Overdrive wiring.
« Reply #6 on: March 02, 2012, 10:18:23 PM »
And the fuse holders are brass which tarnishes over time and that tarnish can be worse than rust when it comes to inhibiting current flow. Cleaning the fuse socket, with something that will remove the tarnish can be the difference between a working and a non-working relay. As Tom mentions, it takes a big current spike to fire that OD solenoid and if it can't pass through the fuse socket easily you get no OD.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 07:07:53 PM by Fid »
1953 Henry J Corsair Deluxe
Edgar Kaiser's custom 1951 Henry J
1951 Kaiser Special
1952 Allstate Deluxe

Need your classic car radio repaired? I repair vacuum tube radios

boatingbill

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Re: Overdrive wiring.
« Reply #7 on: March 03, 2012, 12:30:21 AM »
Thanks everyone. That picture shows the same relay as mine. However there is one wire on the coil that goes to the distributor and the other side of the coil has one wire to the ignition switch. No wires
directly to the relay. I can't tell from your picture where the relay connector wires go in the engine bay. My '51 shop manual shows figure 435 as the same as your figure 304. One wire should go to
the kick down switch and one wire to the OD solenoid. It is the other wires to the starter solenoid
and coil I am missing. The guy I bought the car from said the OD quit. I can see why it doesn't. With
60 year old wiring a wire could break, but to be missing two wires?

Fid

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Re: Overdrive wiring.
« Reply #8 on: March 03, 2012, 09:07:45 AM »
Missing does seem strange. It is not easy to solder or get a good connection when trying to repair the 12 gauge wires (the orange one that goes from the relay to the battery). If you want, you can disconnect the plug, clip the wires and send the plug to Bob McBride and he'll make you a new harness with all new wires. He's made a couple for me and they look/work great. Otherwise, you do some splicing. Also, the distributor side of the coil should have two wires on it as well - one to the distributor of course, and one down to the kickdown switch. Oh, Bob McBride's contact info is in the most recent KFOC Bulletin (March 2012).
1953 Henry J Corsair Deluxe
Edgar Kaiser's custom 1951 Henry J
1951 Kaiser Special
1952 Allstate Deluxe

Need your classic car radio repaired? I repair vacuum tube radios

boatingbill

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Re: Overdrive wiring.
« Reply #9 on: March 06, 2012, 06:40:44 PM »
Thanks FID. I sent my OD relay connector to Bob today for a new wiring harness. I found two
wires missing and a completely bare wire down at the kick down  switch. It was pure luck the
fuse wasn't blown or even worse a fire started.

HJ-ETEX

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Re: Overdrive wiring.
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2012, 07:21:54 PM »
Referring to Lowell's Fig 304: You may wonder why there is a connection from the ign coil to the kick down switch to the OD Solenoid. This serves 2 purposes when you floor the accelerator pedal. First, it shorts out the ignition by diverting current to a terminal on the OD solenoid and lessens the load on the transmission. Secondly, it activates a secondary coil in the solenoid to pull the solenoid shaft out of the sun gear. If the current to the solenoid was cut off (say by dropping below 28 mph), the shaft should be pulled out by a spring in the solenoid anyway, but it seems that action may be too slow for good response in full throttle situations.
When the solenoid shaft is completely retracted, the shaft opens a set of points in the solenoid so this circuit can not be completed unless the OD is engaged (solenoid shaft inserted into the sun gear).
KFOCI VP 2001-2005
1951 Kaiser Deluxe /327 Chevy
1951 Kaiser Deluxe (no funny stuff)
1968 Kaiser Commando V6
1961 Willys 2WD 134 F-Head SW
1963 Kaiser FC170

boatingbill

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Re: Overdrive wiring.
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2012, 10:51:41 PM »
Thanks HJ-ETEX. The more we know about our cars, the better we can keep them running. It is
becoming harder to find knowledgeable who understand this technology. There isn't a computer
to give a fail code to the technician to tell them what part is bad. These KF products are made
to be simple to fix. Back in the day KF didn't have many large dealerships, one one or two
mechanics had to do it all. I remember the local service station saying our '53 Kaiser had a worn
out motor because of low oil pressure. We took it to a old Kaiser mechanic and he replaced the
oil pressure sending unit and VA-VOOM perfect oil pressure. No more service stations for us.

Jim B PEI

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Re: Overdrive wiring.
« Reply #12 on: March 07, 2012, 07:54:09 AM »
Oh, this is so so common!

I can give you worse than that, on a newer car. My VW Jetta wagon turbodiesel suddenly started belching black smoke and had no power on a very hot day on a visit back to my former home city in Ontario. I took it to the selling dealer--a "Wolfsburg Award" winning dealer no less--where for over $100 they diagnosed that the turbo had failed as the readings came back with no turbo pressure at any speed and that a whole turbo unit replacement was needed at well over $2000. Needless to say, I refused, and drove back from Ontario to the Maritimes--about 800 miles, somewhat slower than usual-- looking like the car was coal fired (at times) just like the old days of diesel Rabbits.

Turned out that the turbo wasn't gone at all, but a plastic pipe on the top of the engine from the turbo to the intake had popped off and so no turbo pressure. Seems that the dealer that sold it to me used had overlooked to clean out the diesel equivalent of the PCV valve where it meets the exhaust gas recirculation unit, so it had clogged and pressure had forced off the plastic pipe.

What irks me, is that the pipe was obviously off the engine--it was rattling against the belt pulley,wearing a hole in the pipe. Since it first happened a short distance away from the dealer, I never checked myself because I drove directly there and trusted the highly paid experts who took two hours for the diagnosis, and whenever I checked stuff like oil level on the way back, the engine was off so no flopping about of the loose pipe, and it fell back into the regular slot. As soon as I took it to a place I trusted on PEI, I turned on the engine and we looked at it...and it was apparent that the idiots at the dealership had just hooked up the computer and never once looked at the engine running.
KF
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Corsairdeluxe

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Re: Overdrive wiring.
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2012, 02:13:57 PM »
Trouble shooting aids... Hope this helps
Jim Brown aka Corsairdeluxe
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10 Henrys and 1 ALLSTATE
behind me. J less at the moment and having irrational thoughts.

Corsairdeluxe

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Re: Overdrive wiring.
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2012, 02:16:42 PM »
I'll try to make them readable.
Jim Brown aka Corsairdeluxe
#3559
10 Henrys and 1 ALLSTATE
behind me. J less at the moment and having irrational thoughts.