On the judging topic again

[Fid]

OK, it's time to start talking cars again. How about with our favorite topic of judging? I had a thought and I'd be curious to hear what others have to say.  The Henry J originally came with one locking door handle and it was installed on the passenger side. Needless to say, if you drive / use your car, this can be a pain so a lot of us move the locking handle to the driver's side.  Doing so results in a point deduction (as it should) when having the car judged at a KFOC National. I knew this when I brought my car to Auburn but chose not to go through the trouble of moving it just pick up two more points. I did receive the deduction I expected.
Last Sept, when the fellow here where I live sold his Henry J, he bequeathed all his extra parts to me. Among his spare parts I found a bag with two door lock cylinders and an ignition lock cylinder assembly in it. The bag is marked 213096 and is listed as "Door Lock Cylinder, Ignition lock cylinder" in the parts book. It contains two door lock cylinders (they have the swinging cover) both of which are keyed the same.
So, if I moved the locking door handle back to the passenger side, then installed a locking assembly on the drivers side (keyed the same) would that be correct for judging purposes since there would be locking handle on the passenger side as the car originally had and there is a listing in the parts book for this "kit?" Opinions? Thoughts?

[pnw_oldmags]

Good Question --
http://circlekf.com/kflit/PM/kfpm580/kfpm580134.jpg
Looking in the Parts Manual description it only states door lock cylinder (not door locks), the ignition lock cylinder and new keys for this part number
I wonder if the extra door lock cylinder was something the previous owner put in the package.
As it is not an accessory there probably was no Installation Instructions.

So my vote is one lock installed on the passenger side would be correct for judging.

Installing a lock on the driver side for your convenience may be worth the point deduction if ever noticed.

[Fid]

You raise a good point Jim. One must never assume that items found in packages 60 odd years later are authentic and original. The fact that the two door locks are keyed the same is what leads me to believe they were originally packaged together but there's no such item listed in any of the accessory lists.  That gray '51 HJ my dad owns has two locking door handles, keyed the same, but again that does not mean it came that way originally. Any locksmith can make the lock fit the key if someone wants that so who knows what someone may have done over the course of the car's life. I'm of the opinion that as long as you have a locking handle on the passenger side, then you should not receive a deduction if you also have one on the driver's side as a dealer could've installed it, sort of like installing bumper gaurds on a HJ standard. Of course bumper gaurds were a factory option whereas I've seen no documentation to indicate that an additional door lock is. I think it should be considered correct but I wouldn't argue too hard over it if not.

[pnw_oldmags]

HJ Air Duct Tubes -  I have been collecting HJ accessories to install on my 53 HJ when the time comes.  I purchased 5 air duct package kits 100172 and 100173.  In the five kits I purchased none of the tubes match. 

IF your fresh air duct tubes don't match should that be an issue in judging??

[Fid]

If you  have NOS ones that don't match each other, I'd say no deduction... But you better retain the evidence.

[HJ-ETEX]

Lowell: If I judged your HJ and if it had 1 locking handle, it had better be on the passenger side. 2 locking handles would be OK since it was a dealer available item and a judge would not bother to test whether the locks worked or if they were keyed the same. In a related category, the parts book says 4 cyl HJs were supposed to have body color gas caps while the 6s had chrome ones. Gas caps get lost a lot so I don't think I would have an issue with a chrome cap on a 4 cyl, but I would have an issue if it did not resemble the original 4 or 6 cap - specifically if it were a locking type cap.   

[Fid]

My '52 Henry J Vagabond has a painted gas cap but that one was originally a four cylinder. I like the painted cap but it would be easy to keep a chrome one in my pocket for judging. Of course it's still not going fix the tag not matching! Now I would think a painted one on a car that should have chrome would mean a deduction but I agree that chrome one on a standard would be no big deal as long as it was the correct type.

Yes, my '53 J (a tag matching car) which I had at Auburn has one locking handle and it's on the drivers side. Yes, I got the deduction and I would have been critical if I hadn't! I may throw a lock on the other door handle of it. I don't forsee getting it to a another national in the near future but it could happen.
There has been much discussion about the whole topic and I don't want to rehash old criticism, just curious about certain instances. I find the differing opinions interesting and enlightening.

[HJ-ETEX]

Members should also note that a big % of the judging score for a car comes from places other than the body and interior. A small investment and a modest effort under the hood and on the under body goes a long way to boosting the score.

[HJ-ETEX]

I have seen situations where the body color did not match the body tag but the color was similiar enough to a regular KF color that it may have been overlooked - except that the firewall and door jambs were still the original color. There is also the situation where a member restored a 4 cyl HJ as a 6 cyl. Everything that made it a 6 cyl car was there. Only the body tag gave it away.

[Fid]

I think I know the car of which you speak. Nice piece of work indeed but not tag matching.
I think it is also clear that many owners are not concerned about owning a tag matching car so again, it boils down to personal preference. As the owner/maintainer of four classic cars, I know what a job it can be and anyone who puts in the time, effort, blood, sweat and tears ought to have their car as they like it.  But on the other hand, being a data maintainer by trade, I'm also a stickler for acuracy and facts so I can't help calling it out when I see it. So... all that being said, back to the topic of judging. Here's one, my dad and I restored a '51 Frazer (F515 standard) back in the early 70s. The car was Mariner gray but dad didn't like gray at all. He kept recalling a yellow '51 Frazer convertible which he saw in the show room at NL Motors in Souix Falls in 1950 so he painted that F515 Arena Yellow (I think I've posted pictures of it on here). He painted inside the door frame, under the hood and firewall, inside the trunk, etc. The only way you know it wasn't original was the tag listed the paint code for Mariner gray.  Of course we now have info supporting that the F515 was not offered in Arena Yellow. Point deduction for that or not? I say yes, it should receive a deduction because it was a color that was not offered on that model. By the way, that car survives and the owner is very proud of it. I still see it around every now and then.

[HJ-ETEX]

Lowell: Mariner gray is somewhat depressing and I can understand someone switching colors. It won't make a difference at a mall parking lot show or a KF Divisional Meet, but it should count off at the National Meet. Especially at the National the cars are supposed to be examples of how the cars came from the factory.
And speaking of car colors, I just finished painting my farm trailer Rustoleum Safety Yellow today. I would not care to have a car that color but 1) it shows up real good in the rearview mirror and 2) what paint that had not flaked off was that color a couple of decades ago. If you want to paint a vehicle yellow and use an existing formulation, you don't have as many choices as you might expect. When I painted my 55 Stude Commander (Encino Cream) I passed over a Ford color (Custard Yellow) which was about like Safety Yellow in favor of a color used on early Chrysler K cars which was somewhat subdued compared to what the door jambs say the original Stude color was like. 

[Fid]

This is not really on the topic of judging but the Club Handbook states that '51 Frazer convertibles were mostly sent to distributors as opposed to dealers. I wonder how that one ended up at NL Motor Sales in Sioux Falls?  He also said there were two Darrins at that dealer when they came out. I wonder where they ended up?

[Terry T]

RE: comment from HJ-ETEX

Is it common that judging at National KF meets is at a different standard than local/divisional KF meets?

[HJ-ETEX]

Terry: The judging at the Midwest Divisional Meets is based on condition. Almost no emphasis is on correctness. I have encountered several members who received favorable awards at a Divisional Meet and were severely shocked at a National. I view this as a problem since it is essentially going from shopping mall judging to intense scrutiny.  I really think the jump should be less abrupt. And I further think the Division needs to do more than they have to prepare a car owner for the close examination their car would receive at a KF National or a AACA meet.

[HJ-ETEX]

And actually most of the problems I am thinking of don't even get to the depth of judging standards. I am thinking of such things as obviously wrong wheels/wheelcovers, battery cables, and mismatched components (different headlight doors are a good example).