Author Topic: Engine Conversions  (Read 36605 times)

traveler

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
    • Email
Engine Conversions
« on: August 05, 2007, 09:08:06 AM »
I would like to correspond with any owners who have installed Chev V-8 or other motors into their 51-55 Kaisers - you can email me direct at "traveler@netrover.com".

Gordie

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2495
    • MSN Messenger - gordies1@verizon.net
    • AOL Instant Messenger - Gordie
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Engine Conversions
« Reply #1 on: August 08, 2007, 06:38:13 PM »
I think that this is going to be a more and more popular topic in the future as many of us want our KF cars to be more roadable and dependable.  Many KF products have been sucessfully converted to more powerful engines with air conditioning added and they can look absolutely stock from the outside.  I recently attended a Southern CA Chapter function and there were about twenty members that were there but only about three Kaiser Frazer products.  Our chapter like most covers a large geographical area and members are reluctant to drive their cars in heavy traffic over long distances.  A breakdown could spell disaster as no parts are available unless you bring a stock of them yourself.  This seems to be a trend in not bringing your KF to a meet and it seems a shame that we can not see more of our great cars at club functions.  The Chicago National meet had more trailers in the parking lot than I have ever seen before at a National.  What will the future be like for our chapter meets?   I think that we are just going to see more and more of the same!  A good solution is to update our cars and make them more dependable and fun to drive long distances.  This was a great topic and I am sure that there are many of us that are curious about the costs and the "how to's" of these engine conversions.  Any experiences and ideas that any of you that have "been there and done that"  could share would be greatly appreciated and welcomed by many members.  Gordie
« Last Edit: August 08, 2007, 07:26:00 PM by gordie »
Member #3151 Since June 1974
Vice President K.F.O.C.I. 2013-2017  President 2018-2019
'47 Graham Paige Frazer                                   
'51 Kaiser Deluxe club coupe       
'51 Kaiser customized convertible 
'52 Allstate serial#39
'53 Aero Eagle
'54 Aero Eagle Custom

traveler

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Engine Conversions
« Reply #2 on: August 09, 2007, 10:04:37 AM »
Gordie - Thank you for your comments - Very well said.  I have put different engines into Kaisers over the years - one of the easiest conversions years ago was the 49-53 Ford/Mercury flat head - I have also done several Chev V-8 conversions using the 283-327 - and for that I used the front mount assembly off a 1957 Corvette with a custom fabricated rear mount using the existing Kaiser Transmission rear crossmember.  This is a very easy conversion - the front engine mount hangs on the waterpump mounting bolts and uses all chev components including the mounts and the mount support stanchions - even Chevy exhaust manifolds can used - While these parts were almost impossible to find for a few years, they are now being reproduced and are again readily available as an aftermarket item.  The one big drawback however is the fact that for the engine to sit right, you have to heat and bend the centerlink and lower it enough to clear oil pan, unless you modify the oil pan, both of which  I want to avoid.  My reason for the post was to see if anyone has come up with a better system that does not necessitate this - hopefully one of the rack and pinion set-ups now so popular.  I have a couple of sets of the Studebaker to Chev V-8 mounts that I am experimenting with as the frames are somewhat similar, but I would like to avoid the steering problem if at all possible, and not yet sure if the Stude Mount will permit that.  Kaiser Bill has done a frame clip on one of his cars - it is nicely explained on his website, and that is a great way to go as it gives you modern braking as well - but I would like to come with a conversion that is less complicated and uses the Kaiser Frame - one that perhaps a kit could be designed for making it a job that most owners could accomplish without owning a machine/welding shop, or having to try and locate someone proficient enough to do this correctly.  My whole purpose in this is to keep the car looking original from the outward appearance, yet give it reliability for long trips at highway speed and be simple enough that most owners could do the job themselves.  Every one speaks of the reliability of the Kaiser 6 Cyl. motors, so either no one wants to admit it, or I am an anominally, but I have had no success with them at all - and I am speaking long term here as I have owned kaisers for over 50 years and even with the best of maintenance I have NEVER had a motor that was any good for any period of time - and I am not hard on my vehicles (2 of the current vehicles I am driving (both GM) have over 300,000 on them and not using any oil yet so I must be doing something right) - thus my interest in the conversions. 

As an aside, I have put a lot of miles on a 53 Manhattan sedan with this  Chev. conversion using the stock Kaiser rear end, suspension and brakes, and never encountered a problem - I used a set of 57 Chrysler 14" rims on the car with the appropriate sized tires, and it both rode and handled well.  Even braking was never a problem.  I have never experienced a rear-end failure or even a rear wheel bearing problem on any of the cars, so I am satisfied that those components are solid. 

Also, as an aside on the Kaiser 6 - I have a nice 54 that I would like to keep original, but it also suffers from that annoying bottom end "tick" that is the harbinger of a crank failure, and in that vein, I recently had a conversation with a chap in Toronto Ontario who specializes in overhauling engines - particularly older stuff.  He was somewhat familiar with the Kaiser engine, and his feeling was that the oiling system is lacking. This is originally an industrial designed engine that was subsequently converted for automotive use,and the oiling system was not properly addressed for the stresses that automtive use places on the design.  The addition of one more main bearing would probably have solved the problem and made this a very reliable engine, but that was not undertaken.  He felt that the system could be sucessfully modified and the crankshaft strengthened through the welding process so that reliability could be gotten out of the engine, but the cost is prohibitive unless you are wanting a totally original car and money is not an object.  I am not into 100 point restorations - I just happen to like 51-55 Kaisers style, ever since I drove my first one at age 16, and the reason I still have 4 of them, and I just want a nice reliable driver.

Tom


52AeroWillys

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 16
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Engine Conversions
« Reply #3 on: August 12, 2007, 06:33:15 PM »
Interesting topic considering all of the recent negative hype over judging of "modified's" at KF meets. I'm a proponent of "resto-rods" because of the advantages when traveling/driving our vehicles to meets or pleasure. A special class for modifieds seems more and more warranted and logical.  8)
AeroWillys

traveler

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Engine Conversions
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2007, 09:14:07 PM »
Well, I have no arguement or axe to grind with the purists - it's just that in my own case, I like to drive the cars and I want them dependable, and the old 6 is not dependable - at least it never has been for me.  I am not concerned about a 100 point car - mine are not trailer queens - I want them to do what they were intended to do.  If I had unlimited funds available to me, I would have a 100 point car - but I do not and I want to enjoy the cars so for me, having a good dependable driver is more important.  Quite frankly, I don't care what anyone else thinks. They are my cars, and I will set them up any way I want. 

That aside,  I recently made contact with a fellow near here who does all sorts of custom frame work, even to the point of building custom frames for one-offs.  He came over and looked the Kaiser Frame over and also the Camaro clip that I have here for it - After we had carefully assessed the posibilty of using a clip, it became readily apparent that this was not going to be a real easy task to accomplish as the two frames are not even close to being compatible.  He suggested just modifying the existing Kaiser frame by removing the front crossmember and then putting a custom made Mustang II crossmember/suspension/steering into it - much easier and cheaper than using the clip.  He had me over to his shop to show me how the mustang set-up works, as he currently has 3 cars in there undergoing this procedure. It makes a real nice installation that looks like it was factory engineered.  He builds them right in the shop so they are built to work with whatever frame you supply.  Either Ford or Chevy disk brake rotors can be used, and the new style rack and pinon steering is a definite plus. It also opens up the engine compartment so that almost any motor could be used -

I will probably go that route for the 53 Coupe I have - and will make a photo journal of it as it progresses so that anyone interested can take a look at the results. Due to the backlog of work at the shop, it is tenatively scheduled for March of 2008.

Tom


jmxkf1

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 157
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Engine Conversions
« Reply #5 on: January 12, 2010, 06:32:57 PM »
The best conversion that I've seen done was putting the Kaiser body on a Caprice chasis.  It fits with slight modification.   A man by the name of Lee Pearcy in in So. Cal region did it. 

47trev

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Engine Conversions
« Reply #6 on: January 12, 2010, 10:51:35 PM »

kenneth

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 61
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Engine Conversions
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2010, 12:25:23 PM »
Hi interesting topic,personally I would like a swap to a "modern" inline six.The problem with the oilpan clearing the steering using a chev v8 I am pretty sure it could be solved by using the correct oilpan/pump there are many different pans for the chev.SB as for judging there should be two classes strictly original and modified. ;D

ben-tex

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 266
    • View Profile
    • KF NUT
Re: Engine Conversions
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2010, 05:14:12 PM »
The club has long had a modified class.
Life Member
Quarterly Editor 1985-2001
Developed first official club website
1951 Kaiser Deluxe
1951 Frazer Vagabond
2008 Pacemaker :)

vettelang

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Engine Conversions
« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2010, 07:08:07 PM »
As a newcomer I have several simple questions - for reliability are we talking about the 6-226 motor? I thought that was in Checker taxis as well, which suggested to me some degree of durability.

Also what paint is currently available that comes close to the original color?

Thanks for the help.

joefrazer

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4026
    • View Profile
Re: Engine Conversions
« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2010, 07:30:49 PM »
Properly tuned, a KF 226 should deliver at least 100,000 miles of reliable running. KF engines had trouble with oil pressure due to how the pumps were made. Since many owners didn't change their oil as often as they should, and the pumps tended to wear causing a low pressure condition, alot of engines met an early demise.
As for colors, KF painted their 226 engines 4 different colors between 1947 and 55. The early engines were grey, then in 1949 the 2bbl carburetor equipped cars got a mint green engine. In 1951, they went to a darker green that is close to John Deere green (but not quite the same). Finally in 1954 the supercharged cars got a maroon color for their engines.
Willys cars and trucks used silver for most years for their 226 equipped vehicles.

Roger

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 21
    • View Profile
Re: Engine Conversions
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2010, 09:29:46 PM »
Hello
      This is a very interesting topic. I would like to know if anyone has measured out a Kaiser frame and compared it to a truck chassis? I would think that a truck chassis would be simpler to modify.
  Roger

pnw_oldmags

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1282
  • Personal Text
    • View Profile
    • CircleKF Website
    • Email
Re: Engine Conversions
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2010, 10:36:28 PM »
Take a look at Kaiserbill.com  He has been using S-10 Blazer frame pieces I believe to weld into Kaiser Frames
Jim Betts  LM6945
PNW Traveler Editor
CircleKF Webmaster
https://circlekf.com

boothguy

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 9
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Engine Conversions
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2010, 11:43:37 PM »
I was thinking that an AMC 6 would make a nice swap, has anyone ever done or seen this conversion?

Barnum

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 346
    • View Profile
    • Email
Re: Engine Conversions
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2010, 08:34:56 AM »
I was wondering about using an olds 324, as it used the same transmission.While not a "modern" V-8, it certainly was reliable.   
1968 Buick Skylark Convertible
1954 Aero Eagle
Taylor Brugman