'51 Frazer with Hydramatic

[Doc]

Recent engine rebuild and just finished up all the brakes.  Car not driven for decades.  Tranny new fluid and no leaks.  Tried to move the car today and no motion.  Gear shift lever moved through N, D, L, and R with not even a hint of engagement. Linkage at the tranny responds to all four lever detents. Ideas? 

[joefrazer]

Either the valve body is blocked or the transmission is low on fluid. The valve body is located in the same side as the linkage, behind the cover. The passages inside can become blocked with bits of friction clutch material and if the flow is restricted, you'll get no movement from the trans itself.

Make sure the car has warmed up before checking the fluid. When the car is shut off, fluid can run out of the coverter and back into the trans and cause a false full reading. Always check it with the engine running, trans in neutral and the engine at, or near, normal operating temperature.

[Doc]

Thanks, we'll try to get into over the next week. This afternoon I pulled the big access cover off the floorboard to get to the side cover.  Will have to try to get the timing problem figured out before I can get the car to run long enough to idle smoothly and warm up. Rotor points to #1 with Timing mark set to pointer and #1 plug wire is at the front, but I need to try to get it advanced just a little more but have reached the limit on the adjutsment. Is there a simpler possibility that I did not get the linakge hooked up correctly even though it moves with the gearshift lever?.

[HJ-ETEX]

Doc, the easy way is just to move the plugs wires. The 226 distributor rotates CCW unlike like most other cars. Thus move every wire 1 hole CW on the distributor cap. In doing so, you initially advance the the spark 360/6 so you will need to rotate the distributor CCW some.

[Doc]

I'll do that (maybe again....losing track).  When we got the engine rebuilt, it was started at the shop but I had no linkages yet in place so it was all done from under the hood and only for maybe 15-20 seconds.  A couple weeks later when I got all the linkages in place, we could not get the car to start.  I noticed that the plug wires were off by one slot, so I repositioned them per the manual and they way they look on the other K/F cars.  That got the car started but it never ran well.  Went back and forth on this awhile and finally settled on what we have today, i.e., #1 in the position per the service manual but the distributor vacuum advance dashpot ends up being turned more towards the left front headlight than parellal to the firewall like on the others.  Next time out we'll move them as you say and see what we have.  This has been a bit mysterious on this car. 

[Doc]

Car now starting and idling.  Next to troubleshoot the tranny no engagement. 

[Doc]

The '51 hardtop engine is now purring and after a couple quarts of fluid we have forward and reverse and smoothly although there is a "thump or bump" noise when putting the car into reverse.  On these '51s, do I need to be pulling the gearshift lever towards me slightly while going into reverse?   This was a milestone day. 

[84RabbitGTI]

Doc, my motor also has the vacuum dashpot facing the wrong way, in my case it is pointed back toward the driver.  Most I have seen were facing directly to the driver's side front wheel.  My motor runs fine, so I'm leaving it until I have to win a car show or something.

[Doc]

We played around some more with the two distributor adjutsments and now have the vacuum dashpot about ther same as you, slightly back towards the driver and #1 just to the passenger side of centered. Close on the timing, so keeping it this way for now. May try to fine tune it down the pike but much bdoy work and other mechanicals first. Soon I'm going to stick a vaccum gauge on it and if I get 19-21" Hg then it's timed ok; anything lesss and we know it needs further adjustment. 

[84RabbitGTI]

Doc, I'd like to know more about this vacuum gauge method of ignition timing. Is it explained in the maintenance manual?  I don't recall this procedure, but then I am a novice at precision auto tuning.  Thanks.

[montefrazer]

This is like using a tach to set timing or adjust carb. You adjust the timing, advance or retard, until you get the highest vacuum reading. Go slowly and allow the engine some time to react to the new setting before moving the distributer again. More precise than adjusting by ear, but the same idea. Go too far advanced or retarded and the engine will loose RPM and run bad. Best RPM and smoothest idle is what to go for. Be sure the points are set right before you start or you will be doing it again.

[joefrazer]

K50 Hydramatics, the transmission installed in your 51F used a mechanical reverse instead of being pump driven so a 'clunk' when put into gear isn't to be unexpected. Even the later ones do it too.

[Doc]

Thanks Joe and as Montefrazer stated, peak tuneup should be 19-21" Hg on the gauge. The gauge will also show any other abnormalties:
http://www.iwemaenterprise.nl/Vacuum_gauge.htm
http://www.classicinlines.com/Vacuum.asp