Power steering on a Henry J

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

Has anyone any experience putting power steering on a 161 cu in Henry J L-head engine?  Please contact kaiserfrazerlibrary@yahoo.com or post on this Forum site.  Thank you.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

I've heard from various parties that the problem I am encountering reflects the use of radial tires (which the prior owner installed on the car) on a front end (and wheels) that were set up for the older bias ply/cord tires.  Solution appears to change tires to the old type rather than install PS.

[MarkH]

I've heard from various parties that the problem I am encountering reflects the use of radial tires (which the prior owner installed on the car) on a front end (and wheels) that were set up for the older bias ply/cord tires.  Solution appears to change tires to the old type rather than install PS.

I don't see your issue but suspect heavy steering at no or very slow speed due to a wide flat tread footprint.

Another option would be reproduction 60's era Michelin radials designed for non power steering cars which I ran (as current production) back in the early 70's on my Aero.

Someone other than me might be able to address the new "bias look" radials with the skinny vintage tread patterns.

[Terry T]

I can attest to that.

I put radials on my '51 before I drove Rte. 66 to California to save my kidneys on the old gravel, cracked concrete and dirt roads.  I had to install a necker knob to aid my old shoulders in yanking that steering wheel around.

My '53 has classic bias ply--no problemo! 

In going from one to the other, you would think power steering.

[Terry T]

PS  I have the bias-ply look radials from Diamondback.

[Fid]

I'm in the process of trying to replace the tires on Edgar Kaiser's Henry J.  The ones that are on it are Goodyear Custom Power Cushion mounted on 14" inch Keystone wheels. The car steers fine.  The key feature I want to maintain is the triple white wall. From Goodyear I learned the tires were manufactured from April 1965 (confirming the license plate in the famous Spaulding photo of it does have a 1966 sticker on it) through July 1976. Goodyear also informed me that the number "220333-6" on the tire is build number or mold number and the mold no longer exists.  If I want to maintain the triple white wall, the only thing the 3 suppliers I have found that will do it will supply are radials. I remember when I got my '52 Vagabond it had a brand new set of radials on it and it shook terribly (likely because they had not been balanced.) I had a set of bias ply tires put on it and it was a different car! Steered much better.  So now I'm hesitant to spend the $$ it would take to have a set of triple white wall tires made for Edgar if it's going to make it steer hard.  I'll have to think this one through some more.

[Terry T]

Before my trip on 66, I visited various 66 sites looking for hints and advice.

When I mentioned bias-ply, many comments suggested  I was crazy unless I was going to stay on smooth payment the whole way.  That was not my plans as I wanted to see the old homesteads off the beaten path.

Even with the "smooth ride" radials, I, and the old HJ, suffered severe shake rattle and roll many times.  Hubcaps and the horn button kept falling off.

[MarkH]

I'm in the process of trying to replace the tires on Edgar Kaiser's Henry J.  The ones that are on it are Goodyear Custom Power Cushion mounted on 14" inch Keystone wheels. The car steers fine.  The key feature I want to maintain is the triple white wall. From Goodyear I learned the tires were manufactured from April 1965 (confirming the license plate in the famous Spaulding photo of it does have a 1966 sticker on it) through July 1976. Goodyear also informed me that the number "220333-6" on the tire is build number or mold number and the mold no longer exists.  If I want to maintain the triple white wall, the only thing the 3 suppliers I have found that will do it will supply are radials. I remember when I got my '52 Vagabond it had a brand new set of radials on it and it shook terribly (likely because they had not been balanced.) I had a set of bias ply tires put on it and it was a different car! Steered much better.  So now I'm hesitant to spend the $$ it would take to have a set of triple white wall tires made for Edgar if it's going to make it steer hard.  I'll have to think this one through some more.

The reproduction Michelins have a rounder tread profile than modern radials, here's a shot of one of my original tires. I really liked the upgrade from bias handling, but I was also a teenager in pretty good shape back then. I just bought a reproduction set but won't be able to give a perspective from someone in their 60's for at least a couple months.
They are blackwall radials so your whitewall application company might work with them, but they were marketed more for Euro cars and have an unusual tread pattern and look. The clincher for me now was the "bias look" radials didn't come in a recommended Aero size

[Gordie]

Is anyone doing recaps any more?  That would save your tire design for a reasonable cost.  I don't think that they were ever able to recap radial tires.

[MarkH]

I can't recall ever seeing a recap radial.
Recapping an old tire would probably be sketchy since they age & degrade internally too. I don't bring my original Michelins to full pressure due to some dangerous looking bulges that appear on the sidewall near the bead on one of them at well below normal running pressure.
For years I brought the tires up to full pressure when I moved cars around until I noticed a couple years ago that one of the Healey tires had blown a side wall out at some point, 80's era radials with very low miles.

[Gordie]

I wanted good tires for my '65 Mustang and bought a set of expensive Michelin radials.  With very low mileage one of the fronts blew out on the Interstate breaking off the inside of my parking light and putting a large dent on the top of my fender when the tread separated from the casing.  I will never put radials on an older car again

[Henry's HenryJs]

What happened to the "POWER STEERING question?

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

As is the case with many forum topics, the material migrates to a different (but barely related) subject.  In this case, it turns out that the problems encountered that made PS on a 161 cubic inch L-head 6 were in fact symptoms of using radial tires instead of the bias ply original type tires.  I had heard that you needed radial type wheels, and perhaps adjustments to suspension and/or steering to accomodate a swap and it does not appear this was done with the car.

I had bias ply tires on all the other K-F cars I had and noted the bounce on rough pavements so the responses made sense.  My solution to the problems will be to switch back to bias-ply when a tire swap is needed.  The tires don't appear to have much wear or strange wear pattern to them so I will leave well enough alone.

Thanks to everyone who contributed.  It's my first (and probably only) HJ Barbara & I will have so I'm learning as I go about the compacts.

[Henry's HenryJs]

I put radials on my 51 and have no issues with the manual steering. I used the HJ rims on the front. The tire shop looked at them and found no reason to not use them.

[HJ-ETEX]

You know, power steering is desirable on cars with a lot of weight on the the front end. But a HJ weighs 2300 lbs!
I used 165R15-75 radials on the several HJs I drove.
You should not need power steering. Jack up the front of the car and see how easy it is to turn the steering wheel or turn the wheels by hand. May be your steering box is binding. It could be your king pins are binding because they have't gotten enough grease.
I remember a 1981 Ford F150 I dealt with that had hard steering even with power steering. It turns out with the front end jacked up, you could not turn the wheels. The king ping bushings on that were supposed to be plastic (Twin I-beam) but with a lot of grease, they freed up. The vehicle was only 3 years old, but the guy driving it was a drunk who lived by the river so he probably drove it through a lot of water and mud.