To judge our cars or not.

[Gordie]

The reason that we use the car after it left the factory versus after it left the dealership for judging is because the dealers would often sell and install non Kaiser Frazer accessories to the buyer instead of the K-F approved accessories.  Accessory hood ornaments and gas tank lid guards are two examples.  4 1/4 inch whitewalls were the original width when the cars were new and the replacement Goodyears now available are authentic if you order that size and whitewall width.  Having those wide whitewalls on our cars certainly teaches us to stay away from curbs while parking.  It takes a lot of scrubbing to keep those whitewalls clean.

[Terry T]

Written detailed judging standards for the Darrin were issued several years ago by Char Dayton.  Even tho that document is an official KFOCI document, it was NOT used for judging of Darrins at the  last National.  Sort of like the Seinfeld episode when he says you take the reservation but you don't keep the reservation.

[joefrazer]

In this month’s news bulletin the subject of judging is included in the presidents message. So, it is in front of the membership.

[Gordie]

Brillo soap pads also work very well also especially if you have scuffed the curb with your sidewall.  Just wet your wheels and tires and clean the whitewall carefully and keep the steel wool soap pads away from your hubcaps and the paint on your rims then rinse it off.

[Terry T]

Looks like we found a new CHIEF JUDGE

[bmcnut]

I'm new to the KFOC but have shown cars at the AACA meets.  In AACA the owner has a choice to be judged or not. If you choose to be judged the car is awarded 400 points just for driving on the field.  When items are found not to be as the car left the factory, points are taken away.  A certain point level is needed to achieve various levels of awards.  Cars in the same class are NOT judged against each other.  As a result there can be several first place winners in each class or if none of the cars score the lowest minimum points needed thee may be only second or third place cars in the class.  Something to consider.

[JFerriss]

Likewise inevitably subjective for horse shows for over 2 centuries. Having been involved with horses for 49 years, I have to say that the KFOCI nationals that I have attended demonstrate considerable pride of the car owners with a minimal sense of competitive spirit. Often owners are optimistic and helpful at least compared to some horse shows. Just human nature I guess.

[Corsairdeluxe]

It is useful to keep in mind the vehement critic of judging and its effects is coming from an individual who has never been to a national and bases his statements solely to his own divine feelings. He will persist until he gets someone to kiss his ring. The longer people strike his bait the longer he will troll.

[MarkH]

Likewise inevitably subjective for horse shows for over 2 centuries. Having been involved with horses for 49 years, I have to say that the KFOCI nationals that I have attended demonstrate considerable pride of the car owners with a minimal sense of competitive spirit. Often owners are optimistic and helpful at least compared to some horse shows. Just human nature I guess.

  Very fitting for you to mention horses. I've been thinking for several days that this subject keeps getting flogged long after the horse has been beaten to death.

[njpatera]

Terry...looking back at your post regarding your first Darrin newsletter...What year was that? I’m trying to see if I have it in the old man’s records.

[Roadmaster49]

I'm new to the KFOC but have shown cars at the AACA meets.  In AACA the owner has a choice to be judged or not. If you choose to be judged the car is awarded 400 points just for driving on the field.  When items are found not to be as the car left the factory, points are taken away.  A certain point level is needed to achieve various levels of awards.  Cars in the same class are NOT judged against each other.  As a result there can be several first place winners in each class or if none of the cars score the lowest minimum points needed thee may be only second or third place cars in the class.  Something to consider.

Agree.  It's pretty simple. I am a member of the Buick Club of America which copied the AACA judging method verbatim.  400 point judging.  There is no judging of cars compared to other cars.  In theory I am sure that is how KFOCI does it.   In practice, well, when an over restored car shows up, even against a car that is actually and really "all original" it will blow the original car out of the water. 

That is the dilemma facing the hobby since the speculation years of the late 1980's/early 90's made this hobby all about money.  In the BCA the "400 point show club" group has (had hopefully soon) taken over the BCA.  To them, the holy grail day of a BCA National meet is that Show Saturday, when all of the riff raff have to removed from the show field for a few hours so the "400 point show" can be conducted. 

Then it's eerily quiet in the afternoon while the totals are counted so that those who handed their cars over to restoration shops can be awarded plastic and wood trophies before the cars are loaded inside trailers and taken back to climate controlled garages. 

No judging is my recommendation in a casual club like KFOCI where camaraderie is king and you are trying to keep every member possible. 

[Roadmaster49]

So...do we all just get participation awards then? I fail to see exactly what it is you want other than your perception that judging equates competition...already established from many that is not the case.

Noah:
Judging does not equate competition, that is just his perspective.  Judge according to a standard - that is agreed on by a committee not Charlotte alone - and judge each car to that standard. 

I am not for judging but I certainly see a point in it.  In other words, if the standards book is solid and correct, then judging based on it advocates for the stewardship of the marque.  Which is a good thing.  A club should endeavor to promote "correct" looking and driving marque cars.  BUT not to the detriment of club growth, fun, or camaraderie.

If we took the position that there was no more judging at regional meets and national meets, would the correctness of KF products go down?  Does that matter?  It's not an easy call. 

[Roadmaster49]

Finally, the Head Judge of the BCA is rotated. By by-laws the National Head Judge is term limited.  I believe I understand that some members over the years have objected to the lack of objectivity because of judging being the domain of one person, over and over again.   Rotate the Head Judge.

[njpatera]

Roadmaster...good points. In all honesty, judging is the farthest thing from my mind. It’s funny. When my dad bought his Darrin he was shortly rearended by a drunk driver...the body shop had no “spare parts” to obtain and were uncertain what to do with a plastic car. They could only, modify it using other makes items(although the needed items weren’t many). It ceased being OEM and factory correct early in its life. My goal is simply to drive it. I give kudos to those that go the meticulous route. It’s just not for me. I know what it is...not going to be offended if someone lets me know what it isnt😂(I’d take it with a grain or two of salt anyways), but will get it as close as I can. This is going to continue to be a case of “you can’t please everyone.” Everyone must remember you can’t be all things to everyone all the time. I believe that holds true in all car clubs(just my 2 cents). It does sound like the officers need to designate a group of individuals to compile any existing lists of standards that may exist from the clubs inception and fine tune an updated one(again, knowing it’s not going to please all). I just know I do not possess enough knowledge on Kaisers to offer assistance.

[pjkaiser]

Judging is mostly subjective even with rules.   My Traveler won Best of Show twice and People Choice once, when the people were the ones judging as to overall appeal and presentation (I create a story of the time[Drive-In Tray, Drive-In Speakers, Air Conditioner, Parking Meter, Desert Bag etc.] and who Henry J. Kaiser is[showing pictures of the projects HJK accomplished]) and not those who look at just a list of rules.   I'm not negating the rules however our cars are so old and fewer are retaining "Original" status that an adjustment might be sought after some discussion about what the real purpose judging will become.

I have shown my Traveler before, I am including pictures so you don't have to go back and find them.