Oil weight

[Harry]

What weight oil do you use?

[joefrazer]

In my cars...
50K Traveler - 10W-40 Castrol
54K Manhattan - 30W Castrol
53K Manhattan - 30W Castrol
51W Jeepster - 10W-40 Castrol

The Traveler and Jeepster have rebuilt engines so I use a standard "modern" grade of oil. The other two have original engines and seem to hold better oil pressure using the straight 30W. All are a detergent oil, I found that the non-detergent variety built alot of sludge in the pan due to the high parrafin content.

There has been alot of discussion over the years around introducing a detergent oil into an engine that ran non-detergent...I'll leave the opinions to the other respondents.

[Fid]

I was told by more than one "old time mechanic" to always run straight weight oil in these old cars and since I don't drive them in the winter, it's never been a problem. If was driving them year 'round I'd switch to 10W from Nov - March or so but I never drive them at that time of year so I've always run straight 30W in them. One has an engine that was built in 1971 and I've never had any trouble of any kind with that engine. Another is Edgar Kaiser's car and it has an original 161 CID six which was never rebuilt. It just turned over 60,000 and uses no oil and runs very smooth and quiet.
But... in one of Kaiser Bill's maintenance tips pamphlets, he warn owners not to ever run straight weight oil in their old cars.  Perhaps he's thinking if they drive them year round.  I'm not sure where all the different opinions come from but I do know that I drive my cars from April till Oct and for 30+ years have only run straight weigth oil and have had no engine problems doing so.

[49 K491]

49 Kaiser - 30W Castrol

[Doc]

10W-40 Pennzoil for many years

[Gordie]

The Kaiser's owners manual says to use 30 w (1947) and 20 w (1954)  I feel that 20 w is too thin.  I would go with all of this good advice and use 30 w or 10/30 if it is a fresh engine.  Oil in the 1940's was not detergent like the modern oils and sometimes cleans up too much and can make your car start to burn oil.  I have always used a good grade of 30 w for my cars.

[boatingbill]

Gordie: I agree. A good check is if you have an older engine put in 30w and check the oil pressure on a hot Summer day. Then at your next oil change, put in 10w30 and again check oil pressure on a hot day. I noticed a drop in pressure on idle with 10w30. These older engines have greater bearing tolerances and need that straight weight for oil pressure control. A rebuilt engine, maybe not so much. All boat engines always ran 30w, or 30w with STP due to the load trying to plane the boat. Maybe not a great analagy, but why not go with the best protection at idle or under load?

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

My experience with oil pressure issues shows two problem areas:

1.  If you check the shop manual and parts book, you will find an Oil Pressure Relief Valve which relies on spring tension to hold the block in place that prevents oil running through the system from draining out of the main galleries and back to the sump.  If the spring weakens or rusts up, odds are that the valve will remain open all the time and pressure will drop as the engine runs.

2.  The Oil Pressure Sender will show lower pressure readings as it deteriorates electronically (and all senders will do that over time).  I had a problem with low oil pressure showing in the 1952 deLuxe while I had it.  I replaced the sender and suddenly pressure was back up. 

The proper oil for use in older engines will be covered by the guest speaker at the Fall 2010 Midwest Division Meet.  I managed to get a lubrications expert from Ford to talk about the new oil grading system that replaces the current API system later this year.

[mbflemingkf]

Jack, what is the recommendation now based on this current info?  I'm getting ready to change the oil in my 54 Kaiser.  It did have a rebuid about 20 years ago and has only had about 2500 miles put on it since then.  A Kaiser expert told me to run straight 30W (Rotella I think he said) without detergent.

Anyone else feel free to cmine in...I know this is an older post.  Thanks!

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

I got one of the lubrication experts from Ford to be the guest speaker at the 2010 Fall Midwest Division meet, and given the current fomulation of oil, his recommendation was to use something like Rotella in 20 or 30 weight (assumption is that the cars involved are not driven in the winter time and are in cold climates).  He also provided information charts from the American Petroleum Institute (API) as guides for oil characteristics.  Sorry, we did not have any extras, as some people ended up with more than one chart. 

Rotella and other diesel type oils are better matched for the metalurgy of the older engines, and would go well in other makes, not just Kaiser-Frazer product.  The newer oils will work, but not as well in the older vehicles.

I've used a variety of oils in the past based on the owners manual.  Valvoline Corporation has always stood by the lubrication characteristics of their multi-viscosity products (they introduced this type of oil in the mid 1950's).

[Fid]

Mike, I always heard not to run detergent oils in an old engine that has not run detergent in it in the past. The reason is, it will loosen all the existing sludge and "gunk" and  could cause problems as someone else mentioned. If the engine was rebuilt the block boiled and cleaned etc.then running detergent oil in it should not be a problem. I've always run detergent oils in my cars (the engines had all been rebuilt at one time). My '53 J, which was rebuilt in 1971, has never smoked or caused any problems in 40  years and 30,000 miles of driving and all we've run were Valvoline straigth 30 detergent type.

[Jim B PEI]

This is a "Studebaker thing" but if you are using modern formulations of even diesel oil, the sacrificial zinc & phosphorus has been removed (ideal, 50-50 combination in the range of 1400 ppm) which helps avoid cam wear etc on flat tappet engines. The reason is that Z&P in oil, like the TE Lead that used to be in gasoline, are poison to cat converters, and some sort of cats are found now even in most diesels. The damage is much slower but still..... There are two ways around this--use certain Racing oils, which are synthetic priced--a good example is Valvoline VR1 Racing Oil, which still have the good stuff in the right quantities (I used this product, by the way, in summertime, as the only weight available in Canada is 20W-50, although 10-40 (yeah, go figure THAT marketing decision) is also available in the US. Cost is about $6.50 a litre/quart, retail and tax in, in Canada. There are a few other oils available in the US which have the right proportion as well. The other option is to use regular oil whether detergent or non-detergent, and add a quality additive like ZDDP. (No, STP won't work) Either way you slice it, it means the oil or oil+additive will cost you in the range of $25-30

This whole schmozzle is ABSOLUTELY CRUCIAL to newly rebuilt engines for at least the first and second oil in the rebuilt engine, and 'may or may not' be necessary for continuing use afterwards.
As cheap insurance, why take a chance?

[joefrazer]

The lube expert that Jack mentioned in an earlier post mentioned in his talk at the Midwest meet that Quaker State motor oils still have acceptable levels of Z&P in their lubricants.

[mbflemingkf]

Guys, thanks for the feedback...Mike

[Jim B PEI]

spam reported to moderator