KF Restoration Guidelines

[pnw_oldmags]

JUST POSTED - the INITIAL DRAFTS of the "RESTORATION GUIDELINES"
for Class 08 - 47&48 Frazers
http://circlekf.com/kfcars/class08.html
and
Class 4 - Henry J & Allstate.
http://circlekf.com/kfcars/class04.html

Take a look and start sending me updates. 
Do read the Foreward on how to send updates.
Any help and most comments will be appreciated!

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

To Jim Betts and any others involved in this project....

Apparently Mike Knittel was mistaken when he told me at the 2010 Midwest Division Meet that I was involved in this project.  The first time I saw this was when everyone else did, that is as a link to this Forum topic.  I also received no email from anyone asking me to check the material out for the purpose of "vetting" informantion.  I take the developments to mean that nobody wants my input as I figured I would see an advance before showing to the general public.

Be advised there are various errors and missing information in the material for the Henry J, especially as regards to Continental tire kits.


Jack Mueller
Club Historian

[Terry T]

Where is the Darrin information??

[pnw_oldmags]

Let's everyone chip in and correct the errors and add the information that is missing.

[Gordie]

I did not find a forward with contact info but I did find the "contact me" link which I used to send you a long email with possible additions for the '47-'48 Frazer's.  Did you receive it?  Let's stop contacting the Club as they offer no help. Publish all of Jack's guidelines and let's start working on them.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

During the last winter when I tried to get the idea of written judging standards going, Jim Betts was one of the most enthusiastic of the people getting back to me.  I suggested to Mike Knittel that Jim's basic format, rather than what I did be used as the "standard platform" for the material because I liked it better than my own.

My personal opinion on all this is that it would be much better to be able to go through and make corrections, fill in blanks, etc before things get posted for the "public" at places like this forum.  Jim ignored the resources I could offer, and that is his right to choose.  However, I cannot help but feel that throwing out to anyone and everyone at this stage will cause the whole thing to get bogged down and killed. 

A MAJOR concern I have (as do others, I have found) is the idea of the paint chips.  They will not reproduce to proper color on a number of computer printers and the numbers listed have long disappeared from paint jobber information.  It would be better if car owners got their own original charts from ebay or at a swap meet, especially the Ditzler as PPG can mix older colors to current if you have their old info as a starting point.

[joefrazer]

In another thread on this site that's related to judging, I alluded to moving to a format where the "judge" would simply be referring to a set of standards that would include photos. The guidelines posted here are EXACTLY what I had in mind.

I agree with Jack...the work to develop the format and layout should be limited to a small group so that the project's focus can be maintained. Those who wish to be involved could be held on a list and those folks would be contacted when task specific help is needed.

[pnw_oldmags]

Gordie - I have not seen an email from you.  The email to send input to would be jimbetts@q.com

Pretty simple.  If you can make your comments with the Class and the little reference number with each comment it should allow me to insert your input correctly.  THANKS for the ASSISTANCE.  We can only do this together as I am really more of a paper collector than a mechanic. 

As these restoration guidelines are to assist us all in restoration - thinks like your shocks should be of this diameter and length would be much more meaningful than be sure the shocks are painted BLACK.

If your distributor is a Delco then the Actual brand and numbers for points, condensor, cap would be helpful. 

THANKS AGAIN.

[pnw_oldmags]

JoeFrazer - I am glad the guidelines are what you had in mind - that is great.  If a firestorm of input occurs and it gets out of control we can pull them back into a Facebook Group and limit access until they are approved(?by whom?).  But that sounds like a way that might stop progress on this.  Maybe the tight group of experts can periodically review the progress and make recommendations for clean up. 

I am not really worried about too much input.  Normally people like to read what has been done by others and take pot shots.   Pot shots are going to be ignored.  Let's all jump in and help by making recommendations for improvement.  This information has been out there for 50 years and never shared ... time has come to collect it and share it.  It must be made available to instill interest in our K-F cars and new younger owners.  OK I will step off the soap box!

[Jim B PEI]

Might I make a suggestion or two to specific points?

1) About paint chips and the like. I know from having original paint chip charts on many years/cars, including all sorts of duplicates, that colour reproduction on a computer is not to be believed as gospel, but neither is a paint chip due to aging/fading...and a computer screen might be closer if based on a good quality chip sheet than a paint chip on the average chip sheet for a Kaiser/Frazer by this time. However, they give a fair idea of what is involved. Instead of taking pictures of actual paint chips, why not show the colour by a link to something like this:
http://www.tcpglobal.com/autocolorlibrary/aclchip.aspx?image=1947-kaiser-pg01.jpg
with a disclaimer that these colours are just an approximation due to computer screen limitations and to consult primary sources for exact matches
This source, I might add, in not foolproof on what they have on-line, as it is missing 1948 completely, all the 1949 colour chips (I have the Ditzler sheets myself) but it does have the confidential memos.

2) You could go the Wikipedia route of sorts--having the information available on line but locked from informal editing, and highlighting, perhaps with different colours, areas that are incomplete, suspect, or need citations/need dates/need productions figures/source materials or photos. 

Between Jack and Jim, and several other people's contributions, still with us or departed, and the odd fact or document here and there from the larger membership, we can whip this into shape.

Jim Bartley
Malpeque PEI

[pnw_oldmags]

Great Paint ideas all -  In the guidelines lets put the concerns about the chips being less than right and provide a link to the online ones Jim B has provided, and a carefully worded non endorsing recommendation to see the PPG Jobber

[Jim B PEI]

I really like the tentative template layout for the Restoration Guidelines as Jim made up. As an example, although mine isn't there in particular, you could get a feel for the Glass Green of my 49, in relation to how the door panels were set up, colours and trim, along with confirmation of the interior paint used with Glass Green (some sort of brown, Oakwood??) and the fabrics used on the seats (Corundel Cord?, and what shade??) besides all the other information.

I'm off on another rescue project next week...another Studebaker, and this time an unloved and later rarity. It has just come up in the Studebaker Forum under "Challenger or Commander?"
http://forum.studebakerdriversclub.com/showthread.php?17604-Challenger-or-Commander

Wish I could find --oh, 53 Utility Kaisers, this easily.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

I can answer a number of Jim's questions, but he apparently preferrs to go elsewhere for the information.  I say it that way because I THOUGHT there were certain agreements in place that apparently are not, regarding verifying information, adding information, etc.  He has the right to do it any way he wants...wether it will be accurate or based on heresay is another matter.

[pnw_oldmags]

Jack,  Your input is very welcome into the Restoration Guidelines.  Accuracy does matter but the days for behind closed door agreements are over.  Let's develop a usable product out in the open with everyone chipping in.  You do have a lot of great information but so do others, lets take advantage of that.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

I am happy that the forum exists because it lets people know what's going on and does it out in the open.

For those interested, the agreement was that a rough draft would be worked up, I would have the chance to go through it, make revisions, ask questions, etc.  When that was done, THEN it would go out for additional input from members who could back up what they said with FACTORY DOCUMENTS rather than hearsay (things like "that's what the guy I bought it from told me").  This has not happened here.  It is my understanding from Charlotte Dayton, Chief Judge of the KFOCI (comment came before the 2010 National) that what Jim was working on was a 2-page "cheat sheet" summary for judges to use, based on more comprehensive information. 

I feel I've been completly left out of the loop on this whole thing, so I will stay out until things get resolved.

Jack Mueller
Club Historian
KFOCI