Advice on Buying a First Darrin

[DarrinFan]

Hi, all.  I'm a longtime fan of Kaiser-Darrins  and I wanted to start looking for my first Darrin to buy.  I was hoping I could get your advice.   I've had a few antique cars (Cadillacs and Packards of the 1930s and 1940s), but i've never had a Darrin.   I was hoping you all could give me advice on what to look for and what to watch out for.    What are the biggest mistakes newbies make when buying a Darrin?  Are there any options or specific histories that have a surprising effect on market value?  Are there particular shops or experts who have done work on these cars that I should watch out for as having done particularly good work?   Any books or newsletters I should read to get up to speed? 

In terms of condition, I'd like a really nice driver with a known history.   But never having had a Darrin, I'm not sure what I specifically should be looking for.  Any help would be very welcome.

Many thanks!
DarrinFan

[joefrazer]

Rule number one...buy the best car you can afford. I've owned a Darrin and it was one that was missing a few vital pieces. I spent more to have one casting made than most folks spend on an engine rebuild. Make sure whatever you buy is complete, or at the very least, you have access to what's missing.

Rule number two...if you're after an "authentic" car, make sure the VIN and body number tags are intact and that the paint and trim codes match the tag. Yes, the car can be repainted back to it's original colors but if you're buying a restored car that's the wrong color, that's an expensive mistake. If you're not after "numbers matching", then at least make sure the body is in good condition. They are fiberglass and prone to stress cracking in several locations including beneath the doors and between the top and trunk lids.

Rule number three...check the frame carefully. The Darrin used a Henry J frame that was heavily modified and over the years, rust and stress cracks have taken their toll on many.

Knowing all of that, again, buy the best you can afford. Prices are all over the map, from unrestored cars that are basically a body, frame and title, to nicely done cars commanding top dollar.

I'm sure others will chime in with hard-learned advice!

[Logan]

Are Darrins really bringing in over $200K nowadays?  I thought that they were more like a $100-150.

[darrin502]

hi,
I have 3 Darrins and I bought my first in 1961 sold it in 1970 found it in 2007 and bought it back finished  restoring it in 2011  , bought my second in 1965 spent 7 years restoring it, and bought  my third in 2011, I am still restoring the 3rd one.
My cars are all modified some people like them and some do not.
I like them and that is what matters to me.
To the newbie I can say that no mater what condition the car is in it will draw an unbelievable amount of attention.
You can expect to pay anywhere from $25,000 for a car that needs complete restoration to $200,000 for a fully restored car. I have only seen one car go for $200,000. There seems to be quite a few Darrins for sale and prices are generally around $100,000 for a recently restored car. As for a nice driver that would depend on your definition of nice.
I really enjoy my cars and I take them to as many car shows as I can. I enjoy showing the cars and talking to the people at the shows.
I hope you find a car that suits you and if I can help in any way please contact me.
Lee Abrahams
leeabrahams@cox.net
I will be at the Kaiser convention in Shipshewana in july with 2 of my Darrins  hope to see you there.

[DarrinFan]

Thanks, all, for the very helpful comments.  Joe,  yes, I am looking for a numbers matching car.  Are there any quirks in terms of things to watch out for that might or might not match?  (Packards can be quirky in this regard, with no matches between engine numbers and body numbers, for example.)  Or is it all pretty straightforward based on the vin and body number tags?  I understand that there is a registry of the known K-Ds; I wonder if that is a helpful resource to understand the history of different cars?   

In terms of market value, the auction database maintained by Keith Martin's Sports Car Market and the commentary from its writers is probably my primary source of information at this point.  The gist of the auction prices from the last two years or so suggests that the average cars (2- to 3 range) are going for about 70-80k while the above average cars such as recent restorations are going around 100k (as Lee suggests).  A few known sales have been far above that for particular cars with particular histories or unusual top quality restorations, but that seems to be unusual.    Or at least that's what the auction prices and commentary suggest over at Keith Martin's database.   

 If that's right, I'll probably be looking in the 100k range for a recent restoration.  I've learned Joe's #1 lesson the hard way with other cars, and it's a mistake I won't make again.

[joefrazer]

With regard to a Darrin, there is no such thing as "numbers matching". Kaiser-Frazer did stamp the vehicle VIN on the frame as well as on a serial number tag, however, you cannot see the former without removing the body so it doesn't really matter. Just make sure the trim, body and VIN tags are all present.

The registry does attempt to keep track of current and former owners, however, it's up to the owners to let the registry manager know when ownership changes so it can be imprecise.

Lee's assessment of prices is spot on. For $100K, one can own a very nice car.

Here's some technical info about Darrins from my web page - http://www.kaiserfrazercars.com/darrinpg.htm

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

In case you are interested, check this out.  It is part of the upcoming KFOCI HANDBOOK Version 5.0

[Logan]

Is it the same as a Henry J. frame?

[Terry T]

Darrin frame is a HJ frame with a few reinforcements.

Re frame on eBay--the serial number on this frame is obliterated!

[DarrinFan]

No, not yet.  Still looking.

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

Hey you "Darrin Experts" commenting on the Auctions America tri-carb car.  The engine is not correct; the chrome cylinder head is wrong.  The test cars used the regular HJ flathead and as far as I know no tri carbs were factory built with the F-head motor.

[joefrazer]

The $94K it brought reflects, in my opinion, where these cars should be. After the $150K Barrett Jackson cars crossed the bock, everyone with a decent car instantly thought they hit the mother lode. Prices have softened...not only with Darrins, but with most collector cars as well...and this car is no exception. As was pointed out in a previous post, the engine's all wrong, but if the new owner knows that, who cares!

I think this car was well bought...and well sold.