Kaiser Frazer pickups

[frankies frazer]

Oh!
Also the trucks are known to be made from 3 new unsold 1947 sedans

[Gordie]

Sorry but I am a hard sell!  The article on the new Posie restoration is nice but written by someone who wasn't even born in 1947 and is hazy on facts.  First, K-F never made any 1954 pickups however someone customized one and it is still around.  Second, K-F would never have donated three new cars to a dealer to experiment with.  K-F had their own in plant styling department and could have built their own versions if they wanted to.  I believe that one of the trucks was the one shown by Joe Frazer on page one and by Jack Mueller on page two of this site and by judging from the interior it was obviously a well used car to start with.  There is no evidence that Earl Muntz ever had anything to do with the building of these trucks but one of his dealers certainly did and it is a nice looking truck.  It is too bad that the original trucks are not still around in original condition as I am sure that there were differences in the way that they were built.  Until I see some real evidence I have to believe that these trucks were converted long after they were manufactured first by a K-F dealer in South Gate CA and later by several individuals who wanted their own custom pick-ups and a few of them have also survived.  Ernie Chavis was on Madman Muntz original list of dealers in 1946 but later moved from his original location in Compton CA to the location painted on his truck in Southgate CA.  I saw Earl Muntz at his used car lot on Sepulveda Blvd. in Van Nuys CA around 1970.  I wish now that I had talked with him!  He had his Muntz Jet parked near his office.

[darrin145]

Are there pictures of the 'Posie' truck before any work was done to it?

[frankies frazer]

You are right! It's all a little hazy with many different stories, some right (maybe) and some wrong (maybe). And yes the article on the Posie truck seems to have some new facts that haven't been around. I would like  to know their sources and documentation. Supposedly their is a separate tag put on these trucks with Curtis Betts name on them.
What about the article in the Quarterly and the man on this post earlier that talked about the 1947 Kaiser pickup from Georgia that claimed Muntz providence? The Posie truck claims it's from Georgia. Seems like the Muntz's name has been on these KF pickups for a long time.
Their is also a story in the book "the onslaught of Detroit" about Muntz receiving the first KF's and these pickups have very early numbers and they are both within a few days of each other (very Ironic)!
Of course their are other stories too. It would be pretty amazing if all the stories were just coincidences or made up, but I guess it could.
Thank you for your input, you seem very knowledgeable about all this. 
 

[frankies frazer]

Also,
In Wikipedia under "Muntz Car Company" it says that [There were 3 promotional pickups built by Earl Muntz but didn't make it to production], and Muntz Car Company was established in 1950. This is when Posie or Hot Rod Network claims that the trucks were built!

[frankies frazer]

The owner of the 1947 Kaiser pickup has his truck on loan and displayed in a famous museum in PA ( I'll look up the name and post it) for the past 4 months, claiming the muntz promo. I would think (but I could be wrong because I am no expert) the truck must have some documentation or he wouldn't be able to do this.

[frankies frazer]

Very hard to say but it Looks as if a pickup bed has been grafted on, in a unibody type configuration like the unibody ford of the 60's or an El Camino look. It also looks as if a back of a pickup might have been used to form the back of the cab. I am not for sure, but that's what it looks like.
I have no written proof of this being one of the trucks (except that the serial and body numbers are just a day or two apart from the Hot Rod Network or the Posie truck) and was wondering what are the odds of that! there are dozens of other things that points towards that it could be!
I am going to write a list of all the things that points towards it being one of the trucks.
I have also talked to Gary who owns the Posie truck and he is suppose to share with  me his documentation and where he got his information. He has already been kind enough to share the numbers off his truck. I was really surprised and happy to get this information and will post the rest of the information soon.
I also realize that there will be some people that will deny that it could be the truck. I owned the 1973 Bill Mitchell Trans Am that was the first Black and Gold trans am and had many documents to proof it along with the designer John Sinellas signature and it had been in many magazines and most Pontiac books, but there were people high up in the Pontiac club that wouldn't believe it, But it was and it sold at mecum auction for $145,000.00
You can't please everyone
 

[Gordie]

I recently heard from Rudy Phillips, our K-F parts supplier from Ramona CA about these pickups and as Rudy has been to most National Meets over the last thirty or so years he is very familiar with most of them.  He mentioned that the one done allegedly by the dealer in Compton CA was actually built by someone in San Diego and then sold to the Compton dealer.  He knows the owners and history of several of them and you might get some interesting facts from Rudy.  Many of them were built in the 1980's.  Rudy's number is 760 789 3608

[frankies frazer]

Thanks Gordie,
I have heard about Rudy because I was looking for vintage hub caps for this truck. I will call him and see if he has caps and pick his brain about these trucks. I have always liked the pickups that look like cars, like the Hudson. I'm glad I never bought a Hudson because I would t have found this truck! I also have always like the KF cars and when this pickup came up on Craig's list I was smittened. It was a good price ($1700). I am also going to join the club because now I'm hooked lol
Thanks again for Rudy's # and your knowledge

[frankies frazer]

Does anyone know a Dave Clark from Oregon??
He was the owner of the truck in the 50's

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

I am considering putting an item in the next release of KFOCI HANDBOOK about the trucks.  I latched onto a letter that indicated the development info on the truck was sent to Willow Run with an eye towards making the thing a production model which of course did not happen.

Grafting a pickup body onto a sedan and refinishing it was nothing new.  One of the Milwaukee area K-F dealers put a dodge box (it said DODGE on the tailgate in a rather slapdash way into the back area of an early production Kaiser K-100 sedan (with the fuel pump at the rear).  My uncle had a Rambler Classic wagon converted into a 2-door pick-up for one of the Milwaukee area AMC dealers c.1970.  For many years after that dealer folded the thing became the "mascot" for the old Picklesville USA used car lot on Lisbon Ave, near the Lisbon/Appleton avenue split.

[frankies frazer]

Hey, finding that letter is great! What date is on the letter? The date could match up with the build of the trucks and help their provenance? At least it proves that some were made with intent to try to get put into production. The new information is encouraging! Can't wait to see it all put together.
Much appreciated

[kaiserfrazerlibrary]

You misunderstand me.  The letter is a memo from Kaiser-Frazer Corporation Southern California Division that included photos of the Ernie Chavis truck.  The writer suggested that K-F might want to consider producing the model including re-engineering the car platform for such a use.  It was never seriously considered for production as far as I know.  The suggestion was similar to the concept for the 4-door S-10 pickups of the 1990's; the original add-on was created by a small independent limo builder in Wisconsin that had a connection to a Madison area Chevy dealer.  The dealership tried to sell the concept for fleet use including the old Wisconsin Electric Power Company but it never took off. 

Ernie's truck was one of the best examples of the engineering required for the El Camino (Chevy) or Ranchero (Ford) types of the late 1950's and 1960's.

[frankies frazer]

Yeah, you just said trucks, I  didn't realize it was the Chavis. It was the one they said was from a wreck and done with a 1948. Thanks

[frankies frazer]

Wow!!!
Good eye Jake!
"Vintage Trucks" magazine is doing an article on the truck!!!!