1951 Frazer Manhattan 4-door Convertible Hardtop

[wilhelm]

If there's already a topic on this car, I couldn't find it.  What's the story behind this beautiful car?  I'm sure there are many of you that know lots about it ... I'd love to know more.  Thanks!


http://www.ebay.com/itm/231984857199?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[rialto]

No new cars for eight years in the forties! wow

[joefrazer]

Another eBay listing written by the misinformed. From the "hardtop convertible" to the "hydromatic" transmission, listings like this one make me cringe...

A nice looking car though.

[Fid]

There were no US cars produced in 1943, 1944 and 1945.  That doesn't add up to 8 years... but of course the ad did say "almost 8 years" so...   Yes there were very few '42s but there were some.

[Gordie]

Not all of the information in this ad is correct.  All car manufacturers stopped car production in February 1942 and the first  major new car out after the war was Ford in August 1945 and the first one went to President Harry Truman.  It had only been three and one half years not eight.  Kaiser started production in May 1946 and much later than other manufacturers but theirs was of a new design and not a warmed over 1942 model.  Kaiser claimed to have the first streamlined body but if you look at a 1946 Crosley you will see that it is very similar but on a smaller scale and the Crosleys came out a year before the  Kaisers.  There were an estimated 151 of the hard tops made but only 131 of the convertibles.  They would both be nice cars to own but they were very heavy and many of the 1951's were equipped with Hydramatic transmissions.

[Fid]

Thanks for the good information Gordie!  The 1942 cars have very little chrome on them.

[Gordie]

After Pearl Harbor in December 1941 the US declared war and all civilian production was to be stopped.  Chrome plating was needed for the war effort and so many manufacturers stopped using it and hub caps, side and fender moldings, grills and bumpers were now painted and some with pin stripes.  Ford had enough supply so that they did not have what they called a "blackout" model but GM cars as well as many Chrysler products had to make do with what supplies they could find and the blackout models are quite collectible today as not many have survived.  On the Sunday afternoon when it was announced that the Japanese had bombed Pearl Harbor I was eight years old and was sitting at a card table cutting out pictures of the new 1942 Dodges from a catalog to put in an album.  I was car crazy already.  When I asked my Father what war was he could not explain it to me but the next day he was at the recruiting office and joined the Navy.  He became a pilot and flight instructor and I lived on Navy bases all over the U.S. for the duration of the war.  I found out later that day that my neighbor was killed on the USS Oklahoma and won the Medal of Honor for getting so many of the men off the ship before it sank.  Memories that I haven't forgotten in all of this time.

[R-Sargent]

Yes very fishy ad, i wrote to the seller to ask him why he is hiding the vin number and the location of the car just says midwest. Also asked about the leather interior that is obviously cheap vinyl and the green steering wheel what's up with that ?  If i had the room i would buy it just to make the car correct again.

[R-Sargent]

Heard back from the company listing this for him , they say because of the age and rarity of the car the owner would not let them show the vin number so what is he hiding ? be careful of this one if your bidding.

[OLDNMKFR]

This is only an interesting side note and no connection to this vehicle is intended or implied. In Kansas City a few years back a similar situation occurred and it turned out that at some point in the past, the car had evidently been 'rescued' from an abandoned salvage yard in Kansas and per state law the original title had been surrendered to the state DMV by the deceased owner of the yard as required at the time. When the restored car was taken to be inspected, the guy could not get it titled even with a Bill of Sale because the title search showed a state voided title. He almost got it seized by the DMV as stolen property even though he had absolutely nothing to do with the past questionable issue noted and he finally had to remove the car back to Missouri on a trailer. He could have easily lost every dollar that he invested in the restoration.

P.S.   An old Quarterly that I have/had mentioned a K-F member who found a 1951 Frazer on an abandoned estate overgrown with weeds and thought about doing the same thing noted above but decided that discretion was the better part of valor and left it there. Not all states are cavalier and loose with titling old cars with only minimal paperwork especially if they are considered rare and carry a high taxable value in that state.

[wilhelm]

What an amazing amount of information!   Knowing the stories is almost as good (maybe better) than actually owning the best Kaiser in the world.

Working off of some of the previous comments:
1. Those seats ARE some form of vinyl, right?
2. The selling firm said the car is in Iowa, they are in Chicago.
3. Maybe I just have the lowest IQ of all the forum contributors, but if this car is not a true convertible, then what is it?  Was the convertible name and look just to attract people?
4. Perhaps not showing the VIN is not serious, but it starts to get serious when too many people ask "why not?"  So, that does make me suspicious.  "Lack of disclosure" in business will always invite doubt.

Isn't if funny what stays in our brains from childhood? One of mine is not nearly as serious as yours, Gordie, but I'll never forget wanting to go to the city (8,000 people) from the farm at age 7 because I knew we would drive past that real estate office where a shiny, new 1957 Black & White Studebaker President was always parked. I never told my family how much I loved that car because they were hung up on Chrysler products and Studebaker was not in their vocabulary.  To me, that was the most beautiful, impressive car I had ever seen.  To this day, 1957 Presidents catch my attention.  There was no Kaiser dealer in our little city, so I never came across a Kaiser until many decades later.  Now I look, still love the President, but what could be more impressive than a Kaiser?

I'd love to hear more on this 1951 Kaiser.

[joefrazer]

In 1949 and 1950 KF constructed somewhere in the neighborhood of 87 Kaiser and Frazer convertibles. They also constructed 935 Kaiser Virginians, which are called hardtops. In 1951, using leftover bodies, KF constructed 152 hardtop Frazers and 131 convertible Frazers. It's a bit confusing because both were named Frazer Manhattan so one had to know if you were referring to a hardtop or a convertible.

The ebay car is a hardtop. The top is fixed and is not removable.

KF never referred to either car as a "hardtop convertible".

When I was a kid, there was a garage across the street that serviced foreign cars. The owner worked on oddballs like Citroen, Panhard, Peugeot and DKW, as well as the occasional Cord. My father and I would walk by the place just get a glimpse of what was inside and we always thought it unusual that the owner would have a Cord or two in the service bay alongside all of the foreign stuff. Then, one day, he closed the door and never reopened. A white Westchester (maybe it was in primer) sat by the window for quite some time - I would stand and just stare at the car wishing it was mine. At 10 years old I'm not sure what I'd have done with it!
I don't recall what happened to the contents of the garage and the building itself is long gone in favor of a doctor's office.

[Gordie]

I guess that we have all been car lovers most of our lives.  I was in the Navy during the Korean war and in 1953 the Navy sent me to Millington TN just outside of Memphis to train to be an aircraft engine mechanic.  During the course of the training I had my own F4U Corsair dive bomber that I would get to start up every morning during the training.  It was pretty exciting at the time.  I had not been in the Navy for very long and had never had a chance to wear my black dress shoes much and decided to go to Memphis one day and so put on my tight fitting shoes and got on the bus.  I walked all around Memphis and decided to walk over the Mississippi river via the bridge which was over a mile long and ended up in West Memphis AR.  By the time I got there my tight shoes were pretty well broken in but as I got over the bridge there was a Studebaker dealer across the street with a new 1953 Starlight coupe parked out front.  It was the first time that I had seen one and thought that it was a really beautiful car and I parked myself on the bus bench and really enjoyed that car for a few minutes.  I had several of them over the years and recently sold my '66 Lark Daytona coupe and still have a '41 Stude pick-up.  Old cars seem to run our lives but that is really not not so bad!