Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: Bob G on July 28, 2017, 07:40:11 AM
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My '54 Kaiser Special began stalling/hesitating going up long/steep hills about 50 miles ago. This began without any work on the engine for over 400 miles. Since then: replaced the fuel filter (old one was quite clean), replaced the electric fuel pump (old one maybe not consistently pumping), rebuilt the carburetor (float set too high, replaced a missing tiny spring), in-line fuel regulator eliminated, fuel line from pump to carburetor replaced/blown-out, linkage return spring replaced, with repeated road tests as each of these items were done. No change. Car will accelerate perfectly and run up to 60-65 mph with no problem, however, encounter a steep hill and the stall/hesitation begins. Next thing is to remove and inspect the interior of the gas tank. Any other thoughts, please.
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It sounds like the car is starving for fuel. A couple thoughts:
- Still a problem with the float. On an up hill climb the fuel level drops enough to starve the engine.
- An issue in the fuel tank with the pickup tube. Maybe a loose solder joint allowing air to be drawn in.
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Sounds like a vacuum leak. This is very noticeable when under load like hill climbing. Put a vacuum gauge at carb at check for leak. Check
carb base bolts for tightness. Do you smell gas when the car sits ? This would mean a full leak allowing air being sucked in while engine
is running causing a lean mixture as Joe suggested.
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The thing that comes to mind here is Vapor Lock. Indeed I experienced this on my '54 Manhattan in spite of a functioning electric fuel pump. The problem was the rubber fuel hose was routed much too close to the hot manifold. Your characteristics sound just like what happened on our 300 miles trip in hot August...car ran ok at about 50 mph, but go over that or any hill and it stumbled.
In addition, there is the possibility of a faulty coil. I had this happen on my Late Special as well as a Hudson.
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let me throw this experience in there just to add more confusion to the solution. Years ago, my 1967 Galaxie 500 was doing the same thing. After extensive investigation including removing the gas tank, it was discovered that there was a rubber section of fuel line connecting the fuel tank to the rigid fuel line. This rubber section had become compromised with age and had a crack in it allowing air to enter the system .This only happened going up a long gradual hill. Steve
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Thanks for these suggestions and things to further review. Will report on the final outcome, and hopefully the cure.
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I think 324darrin may have pin pointed your problem. The flex line that connects the fuel pump to the steel line that goes to the gas tank may be almost swollen shut from the ethanol in the gas that we are buying today.
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A good way to test that would be to warm the engine up and on a level road floor it and see if it accelerates correctly. If it does then
it is not a fuel problem.
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Gas tank is to be inspected.
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Gas tank inspected at a specialty shop and found to have already been relined and not peeling, crumbling, etc. internally. Fuel gauge sending unit had a disconnected float. Float reattached and gas gauge now works (a bonus repair during this search). Fuel pickup tube also needed to be soldered at the tank. A test drive found improvement, but continued stumbling on a steep hill. Further carburetor adjustments, including a needle valve being replaced. Test driven again with the same result on the same steep hill. Note: The hill being used is steeper than any I've encountered outside of San Francisco. Electric pump and gas lines checked again and a plentiful flow of fuel noted. Final analysis is a recommended return to a mechanical fuel pump along with the electric fuel pump as the backup. The mechanic who did this work specializes in old cars and is also a good friend.
Where can I get a fuel pump with updates to handle the current alcohol laden gas?
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Bob, can't help you on the actual fuel pump core. But Now & Then Automotive (http://www.then-now-auto.com/ (http://www.then-now-auto.com/)) has alcohol resistant fuel pump kits, and can also rebuild your pump for you. I have used many of their kits over the years on my Studebakers and highly recommend them.
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Thanks Paul. Hemmings has an ad for pump rebuilding. May try them.
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Another thing to check would be inside the distributor. Check the wire from the coil to points for frayed insulation. If that wire grounds out when the vacuum advance pulls on the point mounting plate to advance the point opening, that would kill the engine, or possible cause the stumble stall. Full vacuum advance going uphill. Pop the distributor cap off and see if the insulation is still intact.
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We had a hill staller ... compression 6 to 1 was 125, 125, 125, 120, 60, 40.
Cracked Valve top in cylinder one and blown head gasket between 1 and 2.
Ran great on the flat, idled smooth for ever... died when it even looked at a hill.
Check your compression.
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I think you may be chasing yourself in a circle. Again I say check with a vacuum gauge for a vacuum leak. The gauge should also show
leaky valves. If it does then check compression as pnw-oldmags suggested. If you floor it on level ground and it runs ok you do not
have a fuel problem.
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An update on the stalling and stuttering issue. Thanks to all for ideas regarding the problem and possible solutions. Since the last post a suggestion was made by a technical panel member from another car club to add a quart of oil (any oil) to each fill-up. The oil raises the boiling point of the gas. Therefore reducing the potential for vapor lock. Have been doing that for two fill-ups and several hundred miles. Results have been no more stall, stutter going up hills, at stop-lights, etc. In addition I've reinstalled a fuel pump. Only an electric pump before, which is now used to start the car after it sets for several days. Have also routed the fuel line to be further from the manifold pipe. If the problem returns, I'll re-post.
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Update on the stalling problem that started this thread. First thanks to all for the things to check or change. To further address the problem, a technical writer and mechanic for another car club recommended adding motor oil, any grade, at the rate of one quart to a fill-up of gas in order to raise the evaporation point temperature of the fuel. This worked immediately. Engine no longer stalls, stutters, hesitates, etc. Have gone about 200 miles doing this. In addition, after the oil addition seemed to be the cure, I rerouted the fuel line which was very close to the exhaust manifold and added a mechanical fuel pump. The car had been running with only an electric pump. If things do not continue to go well I'll report back.
NOTE: Had tried posting this once before and must have done something wrong.
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I've had good luck preventing vapor lock adding 10% Diesel fuel to the gasoline. Recently I bought a new Carter fuel pump for my 53 Deluxe. The literature inside stated it is compatible with modern alcohol fuels. It is a dual action pump but could work in place of a single action one. It would not be right for a supercharged car.
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The new fuel pump installed on the non-supercharged '54 was just rebuilt with alcohol resistent parts.