Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Forum
General Category => Willys Forum => Topic started by: warren on October 17, 2018, 01:22:14 PM
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I have misplaced my flywheel, after getting it back from the machine shop. I have looked everywhere I can think I might have stored it with no luck. I think the best solution at this time is to try to replace it, then I will immediately find my old one. I am not having much finding a replacement either. I assume the L-head and the F-head use the same flywheel, by chance is the 134 flywheel that same?
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On the Henry J ,the flywheels are different between the Aulolite and Delco equipped cars. I know very little about Willys, but suggest you replace with caution any one you know little about since the all bolt up and look the same.
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The flywheel used on the Darrin is the same as was used on Delco equipped four and six cylinder Henry Js. It's part number 214004.
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The Aero parts book states part number 802925 for 4cyl, L & F-head 6cyl engines, 129 teeth.
I have no idea if this crosses to the HJ part number, maybe someone else will, but they are all fitted with AutoLite starters.
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I wish I had an answer. I supply this only to reinforce the concept that you need to make sure you have the right one.
https://walcks4wd.com/ring-gear-flywheel-124-tooth.html
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Darrins used Delco ignition components so the Willys Aero flywheel won't work. Same f-head six engine but, among other items, different bellhousing, starter and flywheel.
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Now I am really confused, I had one source tell me the 134 and the 161 used the same flywheel. I assumed then that my Darrin used the same flywheel with the 129 tooth gear but from the link it shows it that this may not be correct and may need a 124 tooth gear.
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Your source may very well be right for a Willys with an AutoLite starter, and that seems to be what the Aero book says.
From what the Darrin & HJ guys are saying, you need a flywheel for a Delco starter equipped HJ, not an Aero wheel.
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I guess that could be the same flywheel with a 124 tooth gear vs a 129 tooth gear. I will continue my research.
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I don't know if it will be of any help or not at this point but here are several pictures of the flywheels for the Delco equipped cars. It may help ID one if you're pursuing leads. BTW, these are from Edgar Kaiser's Henry J which has a yellow engine.
(https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/002030701605/media/102885397093/medium/1434155061/enhance)
(https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/002030701605/media/102885396189/medium/1434155066/enhance)
(https://uniim1.shutterfly.com/ng/services/mediarender/THISLIFE/002030701605/media/102885406155/medium/1434155447/enhance)
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Fid.. What is the tooth count. I tried to count from the photo, but these old eyes failed me.
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Unfortunately, I was not able to attach the photos so I had to link them. I counted 129 I was able to upload it on this post so now you can download the pic, enlarge it and count them if needed.
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Someone correct me if wrong but I think even if you have the flywheel for an Autolite starter, a good machine shop should be able to replace just the outer ring gear on it. Here's few for sale on ebay
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=willys+flywheel+-kenda+-stemco+-Kuryakyn&_sacat=6000&LH_TitleDesc=0&_sop=10&_osacat=6000&_odkw=Henry+j+flywheel+-kenda+-stemco+-Kuryakyn&LH_TitleDesc=0
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you don't even need a machine shop to swap the flywheel gears, just an understanding wife. If you heat the ring in the oven to about 400 degrees the new gear should slide on. To get the old one off you can heat the ring with a torch, of just cut it if you don't want to save it. I did this on a boat motor a few years back.
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you don't even need a machine shop to swap the flywheel gears, just an understanding wife. If you heat the ring in the oven to about 400 degrees the new gear should slide on. To get the old one off you can heat the ring with a torch, of just cut it if you don't want to save it. I did this on a boat motor a few years back.
I did something similar with my pressed on generator pulley. Put the armature in the freezer for a couple hours, then heated the pulley on the grill of an electric heater...….literally dropped all the way into place & then stuck.
As for changing ring gears, if that is possible to go from Willys to HJ spec, there are 2 Willys 6cyl flywheels on ebay now with some buggered teeth.
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I just went ahead and bought one of the flywheels on ebay. I will change the ring gear if necessary.
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Ring gears are easy to replace. Heat the old gear with acetelyne torch and drive off with punch evenly around. Cool flywheel in snow bank or freezer. Heat new gear evenly with torch. Should drop right on. Make sure it is evenly seated. Sometimes new gears are not real flat. May be necessary to clamp down while still hot.
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An old cheapskate trick was to take a ring gear with a few bad teeth off the flywheel. Then reverse it so the bad side of the teeth faced the opposite direction . A six cylinder engine always stops in one of three places when it is shut down. You will usually see three bad spots on a bad six cylinder ring gear. Two bad spots on a four cylinder ring gear. You would mark the flywheel where the bad spots were. Then when you put the ring gear back on you would orient it so the bad spots would not line up to where they originally were. This would usually last for years.
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I reallyl, really liked reading this posting over the last few days. It is so refreshing to hear folks exchanging how to fix something based on know how and ingenuity, not how to just go out and buy a new one!
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I agree Corsairdeluxe. I knew the ring gear was replaceable on it's own but had no idea how it was done. Thanks to all who replied with information.
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I received the flywheel that I purchased on Ebay and it has 124 teeth. I have a Darrin and I believe a Delco starter so if I interpret all of the earlier post I will need a 129 tooth gear for the Delco starter. any expert here to confirm before I order the 129 tooth ring gear?
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Rialto, I've heard the engine stopping in only three places statement before. Is there an explanation?
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I received the flywheel that I purchased on Ebay and it has 124 teeth. I have a Darrin and I believe a Delco starter so if I interpret all of the earlier post I will need a 129 tooth gear for the Delco starter. any expert here to confirm before I order the 129 tooth ring gear?
Given the variety of info in this thread I think I'd first do a temporary mock-up with your parts. Bolt the plate to your motor, starter to the plate, mount the wheel & see if the starter teeth will mesh properly.
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Here's another picture of flywheel from my Delco equipped '53 Henry J six. I counted and marked 129 teeth on it. Click on the pic and it will enlarge. Also, if you can download the pic, enlarge it and count them again to be sure.
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I tried to look up the interchange on Willys flywheels in the Hollander manual. The Willys flywheels are all listed by model number. I don't know the model number of the car you are working on. If you post the model name , model number and year maybe I can look it up. While looking it seems that Autolite and Delco are different on Henry J flywheels but 4 cyl or 6 cyl doesn't matter.
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I enlarged the picture and noticed a part number - 802925 - that sounded a whole lot like a Willys number. So, I pulled out my 52-53 Aero parts book and the number matched the flywheel used on the 52-53 four and six cylinder cars equipped with the Autolite MCH-6203 starter. Interesting.
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A typical six cylinder engine will usually stop in one of three places due to engine compression. When shut off the engine will continue to spin until the piston in the next cylinder in the firing order comes up on it's compression stroke. When the pressure in that cylinder gets high enough it will stop the engine there. A six cylinder has a compression stroke every 120 degrees. Three evenly spaced spots in a 360 degree circle.
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noticed a part number - 802925 - that sounded a whole lot like a Willys number. So, I pulled out my 52-53 Aero parts book and the number matched the flywheel used on the 52-53 four and six cylinder cars equipped with the Autolite MCH-6203 starter. Interesting.
Very interesting indeed as the flywheel in that picture is in my '53 Henry J and it has a Delco starter.
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I agree that is interesting. I counter 129 teeth also but what it seems I have read in earlier post that the Delco starter used a 124 tooth ring gear. That is a good idea someone suggested, I can do a fit check without the bellhousing, just the motor plate and I can see what fits like.
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Makes sense. Thanks.
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Just for everyone's review, since things do get lost in the course of scrolling throught two pages of posts; on October 18 MarkH posted:
The Aero parts book states part number 802925 for 4cyl, L & F-head 6cyl engines, 129 teeth.
This is consistent with the flywheel I posted for the Delco equipped cars.
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Well, here's a bit more to chew on.
The ’46 to ’56 Hollander lists different numbers for the Henry J & Willys passenger car……….. but lists 2 flywheel numbers for the Henry J Delco equipped, and Henry J AutoLite equipped.
The ’54 to ’66 edition lists the same interchange number for Henry J & Willys passenger cars except for the Willys with 226 cu.in engine.
Which brings to mind a question I've been wondering about. If the ring gear mounts at the same depth on the flywheel rim for both cars, would the relatively small starter gear even “notice” the .04 percent difference between a 129 tooth ring gear and a 124 tooth gear?
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Here's the one from my '52 Henry J Vagabond when I had it out back in 2007. It's got 124 teeth and the car has an Autolite starter. It's the same flywheel that's in it today.
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Well, I finally got my flywheel issue worked out, no I still haven't found my original. I was able to purchase a flywheel and get it surfaced. I thought I had an Autolite starter so the 124 tooth gear was probably correct, It turns out I have a Delco and needed a 129 tooth gear, but since I wasn't sure I had already ordered the replacement, just in case. I did to a fit check of the starter and it was obvious that the gears were not going to mesh. I pulled the flywheel, heated and swapped the ring gears and everything looks great. I also learned that I do have a Delco starter.
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Great news Warren! There was a lot of good information conveyed in this thread. Thanks to all who contributed!
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I wonder if we can get a "wiki" section, with separate grouping for each make and model with info like this as well as good sources for hard to find parts and services. For example, I was looking for a "good" source for fuel pump rebuild and carburetor rebuild. I was able to get good recommendations from people on the forum but I would be nice to have a place to collect this information in one place. Sad to say it would also be nice to include warnings about sources.
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Now that I purchased a new flywheel and changed the ring gear, bolted on the clutch and transmission and installed the assembly in my car, my old flywheel came out of hiding. Right about where I though it should have been and where I could swear I looked no less than 30 time. I now have a nice "spare" flywheel, that I most likely will never need. I am going to store in a someplace that is in plane site to remind myself to keep things where I can find them
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my old flywheel came out of hiding. Right about where I though it should have been and where I could swear I looked no less than 30 time
That's the way it often goes doesn't it?
At least your car will be back together and on the road again.
Look at the bright side, several of us now know a little more than we did when this thread was started. It was a good topic and good discussion so your extra flywheel will not collect dust in vain!
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Well, as Mark pointed out early on and I was too ignorant to understand. The 161 was equipped with either Autolite or Delco electronics, starter,generator, distributor and maybe voltage regulator. Although I am not sure the regulator was different. Depending on whether it was in a K-F car or a Willys and it sounds like even some differences by year, you will have all Delco or all Autolite. This also drives the flywheel ring gear tooth count and diameter. If you have an Autolite starter, the location of the starter is such that it will only mesh with the 124 tooth ring gear, a Delco starter will only mesh with 129 tooth ring gear. I think I got that the right way around.