Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Forum
General Category => General Discussion => Topic started by: konrad on November 10, 2020, 05:16:14 PM
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So what would it take to convert a Kaiser, Frazer, etc., et. al. to full electric?
It appears if current politics play out, that will be the only way to keep any form of older automobile. An end to fossil fuels, gasoline, etc., appears to be the agenda of one side moving forward...so that would demand that anything not Tesla, et. al. be left bereft, rotting in a field somewhere...
Or they will become museum pieces, or destined for the crusher...
I guess it depends on whether there are still patriots of any form left in our country.
How about it...any here?
Personally I think we'll find the revolution will be delayed a bit, but wondering how others here see it.
What do you say about the coming green reset...where nothing oil based is allowed any longer?
Also, give me a head's up on the first new makers of buggy whips! I'm all about that in my stock portfolio!! :D
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There are insurance salvage yards all over the US and I see Tesla's that have been totaled in quite a large quantity for around $4,000. You could probably buy one and take off the body and add the Kaiser body depending if the wheel base is similar. I am not quite that clever but the same thing thing was done With Chevrolet Caprice's so if you could figure out the electronics it would make an interesting Kaiser. This discussion should have been started in the Modified car section.
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All you need is a electric motor, a controller, and batteries,
There is a program on MotorTrend TV (formerly Velocity) called Vintage Voltage.
A company in Wales converts classics to electric.
They make it sound easy, but I'm sure that it is not.
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There are insurance salvage yards all over the US and I see Tesla's that have been totaled in quite a large quantity for around $4,000. You could probably buy one and take off the body and add the Kaiser body depending if the wheel base is similar. I am not quite that clever but the same thing thing was done With Chevrolet Caprice's so if you could figure out the electronics it would make an interesting Kaiser. This discussion should have been started in the Modified car section.
Well now, that is a very interesting idea indeed........Thanks Gordie!
My first thought was a "nuts & bolts" conversion buying individual components but that would easily exceed 4k. Now I'm going to have to do some research since my old Malibu is next up on my list to restore and was built up into a pretty hot performing "poor mans" racer with heavy duty & performance parts, many sourced from junkyards. Somehow it would be very fitting for that car to go that route since it will never go back to stock.
Hemmings had a recent article on upcoming factory electric "crate motor" conversions, nice but not cheap. https://www.hemmings.com/stories/2020/10/30/chevys-electric-k5-blazer-is-the-beginning-of-the-ev-crate-motor-era?refer=news&utm_source=edaily&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=2020-10-30
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A Henry J was converted to battery power back around 1970 by a father and son team (last name Templeton) in Illinois. The car was equipped with a fork lift truck electric motor with 6-volt type 1 case batteries in the engine compartment and trunk. The car had a top speed of 45 mph and a r ange of 65-90 miles before recharge (which was an overnight thing) depending on speed and terrain (hilly vs. flatlands). This car was sold by the Templetons only to find out that the buyer wanted the car for body and frame to make a hot rod; they also never got paid for the car. I got to see this at the first KFOCI National Convention (PA, 1975) both on the road and parked. No noise which always make me feel uncomfortable.
You need a platform that has a 115 inch wheelbase for the conversion if you're doing it off a 1951-55 Kaiser; consult factory specifications for wheelbases on other possibilities (Henry J, Frazer, etc). Remember you may be moving a total of 4,000 lbs or more with the electric system and that could cut into performance factors (speed, distance on a charge, etc). Emisions and safety equipment may be a problem is that some states might license the finished product based on the engine number (which would tie back to make and year the engine was built). I am not a mechanic or automotive design engineer so could not scope it out but it should be noted that Ford and GM had to start from scratch on the current projects rather than adapt an existing car platform to full electric capability. If this is not enough, figure that at between 100,000 miles to 150, 000 miles you would have to put in a new battery pack (mileage assumes you would have started out with a brand new pack) on the car. Unfortunately, these battery packs have a shelf life so even if driven less than 3,000 miles a year, the battery might poop out after 6-8 years.
I am not saying don't do it, but if you do, pick a donor car that would otherwise need major restoration especially on the first try in case the first try develops engineering/construction problems you can't work your way out of.
Regarding the company in Wales (part of Great Britain) that does conversions, I suggest you get a few "testimonials" from car owners to see if they would do the conversion again if they could do it over. You may be surprised at the answers!
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Is this the Electric J you speak of?? Scroll down a bit.
https://circlekf.com/sourceslide.php?pub=KC&srcpub=KC&typ=QM&nbr=057&action=go&pag=62&NEXT=GO+FastPath
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Yes, that is the car and as it was converted it did the job but just barely. I have old postcards of electric cars from 120 years ago that boasted of 150 miles on a charge however they used six to eight batteries.
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Did a little cursory looking around on youtube last night and there's lots of videos & conversions using Tesla components. Weight didn't seem to be an issue, somewhere I saw that a Tesla weighs 5,000 lbs. Also ran across a site that auctions wrecked Teslas all over the country. Seems to be quite an active niche industry.
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This discussion should have been started in the Modified car section.
You are quite correct about that Gordie...my mistake as, though I follow the posts in that section, I didn't think of it at the time I posted. I have no objection to this thread being moved there.
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Did a little cursory looking around on youtube last night and there's lots of videos & conversions using Tesla components. Weight didn't seem to be an issue, somewhere I saw that a Tesla weighs 5,000 lbs. Also ran across a site that auctions wrecked Teslas all over the country. Seems to be quite an active niche industry.
I think one of the major weight components in a Tesla is the battery pack, so if it could be done, transposing a Kaiser body to a Tesla chassis would I think get you to the point of at least a 7-9000 lb car...so that may be an issue.
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Teslas are unibody cars, as are most all cars now. You don't just plop a different body on them. Real pickups still have a frame. Perhaps in ten years one will to be able to afford a wrecked electric pickup chassis. They are just emerging now.
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Teslas are unibody cars, as are most all cars now. You don't just plop a different body on them. Real pickups still have a frame. Perhaps in ten years one will to be able to afford a wrecked electric pickup chassis. They are just emerging now.
One of the shops on a youtube video was doing "reversable" conversions with individual Tesla components where the car could be easily restored to OEM. The battery packs seem to be modular so there's no set configuration/quantity that must be used. "More than one way to skin a cat" definitely seems to apply after watching a few.
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Not to be too technical, but those battery packs are quite complicated. The battery packs require a cooling system and a heating system. They are computer controlled and monitored. They are also large and heavy. Just as another point, the Chrysler Pacifica hybrid battery system is 400 volts. Not sure on the Tesla, but probably close. There are some safety protocols that we follow when working on electric vehicles to keep us from getting hurt or killed. Are you sure you want to convert your Kaiser to electric in your back yard/home garage with no technical experience on electric vehicles.
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Please, Please, PLEASE do your homework on the current generation of battery packs!!!! Some are designed to be linked together (for various size vehicles and distance parameters) others are not and may be too small to move a Kaiser or a Frazer.
The more I get into this, the worse the idea seems. The people writing the encouraging things are dealing with imports or other smaller cars and don't tell you of the complications that arrive with the "conversion.
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This Merc made quite a stir when it came out, here's the first article that popped up when I searched for it. https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/icon-tesla-powered-mercury-hudson-electric-car-first-drive/
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Damn! Love the Hudson in that article.
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I know I am going to get beat up over this, but most folks on this forum seek advise on their cars because they do not have any expertise in auto repair. Converting from 6 volts to 12 volts is a stretch for some. Suggesting that anyone on this forum would convert to full electric is extremely entertaining for me. Besides, most folks on this forum wouldn't spend $100.00 for a new tail light lens for a 1951 Frazer, let alone the tens of thousands it would cost for a full electric conversion.
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I know I am going to get beat up over this, but most folks on this forum seek advise on their cars because they do not have any expertise in auto repair. Converting from 6 volts to 12 volts is a stretch for some. Suggesting that anyone on this forum would convert to full electric is extremely entertaining for me. Besides, most folks on this forum wouldn't spend $100.00 for a new tail light lens for a 1951 Frazer, let alone the tens of thousands it would cost for a full electric conversion.
I asked given the current direction politics is taking.
Given the "Great Reset" planned by our self-appointed betters, where only green energy will be allowed in our future, where Klaus Schwab and the WEF have declared that we (the great unwashed) "will have nothing and like it", where fossil fuels will be discontinued and engines of all types but electric will die with the depletion of the gas in their tanks...it seemed appropriate to me to explore the idea, rather than have a two ton vehicle sit in my garage that will be, if they get their way, non-functional.
I'm just as sure that I will be pilloried for the above as well, but the signs have been posted, the gauntlet laid down...one only needs to search out the info to see that is what is in the plans for our future. (Suggestion, if you do desire to search for such info I would advise not using Google to do so...try DuckDuckGo or Startpage instead...added benefit, they do not track your searches.)
I just bought this damned car, and I want to be able to drive it for a few years before I become room temperature. And it may be the only way I will be able to do so within the next few years is to look toward converting it to all electric... :)
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I know I am going to get beat up over this, but most folks on this forum seek advise on their cars because they do not have any expertise in auto repair. Converting from 6 volts to 12 volts is a stretch for some. Suggesting that anyone on this forum would convert to full electric is extremely entertaining for me. Besides, most folks on this forum wouldn't spend $100.00 for a new tail light lens for a 1951 Frazer, let alone the tens of thousands it would cost for a full electric conversion.
From what I saw on the auction site specializing in wrecked Teslas of all manner, Gordie's 4K acquisition price mentioned in the beginning of this thread seems very realistic. 4K + or -, motor, batteries, controllers, & the rest of the car gets resold/recycled.
Compare that number with the fact that I've got over 4K in a full rebuild of my Aero engine alone. THAT'S what perked my ears up.
Contrary to what you may think, I have no doubt I could convert my Malibu to Tesla electrics, either reversible, or permanently modified.
Just one very interesting possibility...........grafting this little baby onto the rear end of your frame. :)
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No one is going to get beat up over their ideas. All are good questions and we have all learned a lot from this discussion. The total loss of gas powered cars is at least 25 years away as there are just too many of them on the roads today. Many of us will be gone by then and if anything that we can buy is electric that will be good for our planet. Old gas powered cars will end up in museums just like the old horse pulled buggies are right now.
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The total loss of gas powered cars is at least 25 years away as there are just too many of them on the roads today.
I believe you would be quite surprised on that estimate if you did some research on Klaus Schwaub, the World Economic Forum and the "Great Reset" that is planned for we, the unwashed masses. From my research I think you can reduce that estimate to about 5 - 7 years, if not less, as they will be using their Globull Warmin's lies to advance this agenda as quickly as they possibly can...you know...to save Mother Gaia from all of us heathens. :)
However you may be correct in that it won't matter, and this whole question is academic, as if they get their way in all regards they have decided that we, the great unwashed, will "own nothing and like it", as we shall all be serfs of the great socialist one world government they envision.
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Cars are so expensive now that they are offering six year financing. They will not be taking our cars away while we still owe on them. Your theory is interesting but I am not going to worry about it at this point.
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Cars are so expensive now that they are offering six year financing. They will not be taking our cars away while we still owe on them. Your theory is interesting but I am not going to worry about it at this point.
I understand your reluctance in belief or desire to do any research on the direction I'm positing. Confirmation bias is a powerful force, and one I suffer from as well.
Unfortunately I've also been saddled with a great thirst for knowledge, the desire to learn everything I can about the world around me, to try to understand the trends as they unfold, whether said trends be within my family, my workplace, my state, my country and the world at large...indeed our solar system as I try to keep track of even potential asteroid/meteorite near passes.
Some might call it a disease...to me it is wonder at every new fact, science, process, cycle, etc., etc., that I learn.
Would it surprise you to know that there was an article in Time Magazine (their international edition) about the "Great Reset"? It's rather milquetoast as one would expect from Time, there is much better info out there on what is planned going forward.
There is a Chinese proverb, "May you live in interesting times!"...we are there my friend. :)
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Oil is worth a LOT of money, and there's still a LOT left to be pumped, and they're still looking for & finding a LOT more.
I think that sums up the foreseeable future.