Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Forum
General Category => Kaiser Forum => Topic started by: Logan on December 20, 2010, 11:36:36 PM
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I drive my '53 Dragon almost daily, and I don't hold back--I'll give it gas if it needs it, etc. I have done all of the factory tune-ups, and it is running very well and very smooth. I am only getting about 12-13 mpg city and 17-18 mpg highway @ 65-70 mph. Is this normal with the hydramatic? It seems I see some members talking about 23 mpg and above, but I've never seen that kind of mileage.
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My '53 Manhattan with hydro always got in the low 20's-on a few occasions I would hit 25 on a highway trip. Haven't got it back on the road yet-next summer is the plan, so not sure what modern gas will do. The only times I remember the mileage sliding was when something was obviously not right. Once the problem was fixed it came back again. The only thing I can think of that would decrease mileage without appearing to negatively affect performance would be excessively rich fuel mix. I always made sure it was set as lean as possible without dropping rpm's.
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Here are some ideas from the K-F service manual
1. Improper climate control adjustment
2. Engine off time
3. Carb needs adjustment
4. tire pressure too low
5. valves need adjustment - piston rings worn causing loss of compression (power)
6. restriction in air filter (clean element)
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All of the above. Go for the easy low hanging fruit first, and also make sure that you are getting a good hot spark inside the engine. Some marginal plugs will show adequate spark when tested outside the engine, but are weak inside under pressure. Overly rich mixture after warmup is a common culprit too
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If you are getting 17-18 mpg at the speeds listed you should be happy. I have seen these claims of 25+ mpg but I am a skeptic.
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My 50K Traveler w/OD consistently delivers 23-25 mpg on the highway but my 53 is lucky to hit 17 mpg. And so it goes...
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Logan - Do you read plugs? If you you think you have a mileage problem, pull every plug and examine the tip(Electrode). Ideally they should all be a light tan. If this is true, disregard the following.
Kaisers use Carter carburetors which use a jet and a needle that moves up and down in the jet. The needle is multi-tapered, meaning the angle of the taper changes more than once. This needle can wear and the result is like you drilled the jet larger - that is, a richer mixture. Lynn Zettlemoyer wrote in a mid 60's Quarterly about the poor mpg on his KF product and when the carb was torn down, the needle was almost completely worn away.
I don't believe there are any service specs on the dimensions of the needles. You made be unable to discern moderate wear. I suspect that if there were doubt, you were supposed to replace the needle.
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Sounds like I'm not too far off normal, but that needle idea is interesting, and may be decreasing my mileage slightly. Thanks for the responses.
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Are you sure the speed and odometer are accurate? Two of my cars read slow. The cable or speedo head are probably gumed up in mine as the have set for long periods of time. My next step is to lube them with penetreting oil.
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If anything mine seem to read a little fast, which would mean even worse mileage than I am reporting.
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Lynn Zettlemoyer wrote in a mid 60's Quarterly about the poor mpg on his KF product and when the carb was torn down, the needle was almost completely worn away.
I looked through 20 years of Quarterlies last night looking for this MPG article and must have missed it. Thought I would post it if I could find it. Could you give me the Year of the Qtrly. I think Lynn Zettlemoyer was the Editor of the Buffalo Briefs for several years. Any chance you read it in that publication??
My time reviewing Quarterlies was not wasted anyway ... Found an article about replacing a Padded Dash and another article on replacing the window channels - need both of those for my current restoration. The Qtrlys are a wealth of information.
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An old timer once told me how to check Carter needles for wear. Remove them from the carb and with your thumbnail against the needle, run it down the shaft. It does taper but shouldn't have a ridge anywhere. If so, they have worn due to bottoming and need replaced. I did replace them in my 53 but now I need to reset things like the float level, idle mixture and choke pulloff. There is something to be said for todays fuel injection...
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Here is an interesting read that includes a 1954 Motor Trend road test stating that the Supercharged Manhattan got 2.2-6.7 mpg less than a 53 Model...getting 16.9 http://vs57.y-block.info/kaiser.htm
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meaning the 54 got 16.9....so add the difference and the older models were in the 23mpg range
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I think the figures were supposed to be in the 19-25 range. I know that my 49 Special, with a weaker less efficient engine and a heavier body, regularly gets 17-23 miles per US gallon in reasonable fettle, so a 53 or 54 Special with more efficent engine, more areodynamic and lighter body should do better
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If the metering rod rubs on the jet it can slop it out making the hole larger. This will decrease the mileage some but not significantly. What I find interesting is all the literature that boasts 30 mpg from a Henry J! I own three of them and have driven many more, all with overdrive and I've never gotten better than 17 mpg in town and usually get 14 in town. When I drove my '53 to Auburn in 2004, the best I got on the hiway was 22 mpg. Yes, I realize some Henry Js had four cylinders and mine are all sixes but the Mobile gas run was done with a six cylinder model. I don't know what they were smoking but I've never gotten 30 mpg in a J of any type.
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Try o drive at a constant 45-50 MPH on level ground - no hills -
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The Mobilgas Economy runs were done under unrealistic conditions as far as everyday routine driving would be concerned. That is the drivers were trained to coast etc.
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Probably true. I do notice when my car's not running, I get very good fuel economy.
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Try putting fifty or sixty pounds of air in your tires too but the Mobilgas run drivers never bragged about that trick.
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sOME OF THE CRITIQUES THAT WERE WRITTEN ABOUT THE 53 K CARS WERE THE TIRES WERE OVERSIZE, FILLED WITH MORE AIR PRESSURE AND THE TRED WAS MODIFIED , IT WAS GROUND OFF THE OUTSIDE EDGES FOR LESS FRICTION, THE CARBS WERE MODIFIED TO RUN A MORE LEAN MIXTURE, THE DRIVERS ANTICIPATING WOULD PUT THE CAR IN NEUTRAL ANY CHANSE THEY GOT, SPEED WAS 35-45 MAX IT MATTERED NOT IN THE LEAST IF THEY CAME IN LAST, EVEN THE DRIVER HAD TO BE SKINNY AND NO SPARE,NO JACK, WINDOWS ROLLED ,NO WINDSHIELD WIPERS ,NO DRAGING BRAKES,NO HUB CAPS ALL THIS AND MORE WHILE ON THE ROAD, PICTURES WERE TO BE TAKEN AT A DISTANCE EVEN WHEN PARKED AT A RELAY POINT. SEE SOME OF THE TOM MC CAHILL ARTICLES
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I have a copy of a typewritten chart from Studebaker for the 59S and 59V models S=flathead six, V=ohv V8) 20/30/40/50/60 for standard. overdrive, and automatic with all the possible r/a ratios The best mileage was nowhere near 50--they had it pegged down at 30MPH, and the V8 figures were little different than the sixes.
I think the HJ would be similar. It might be instructive--if tedious--to measure HJ6 o/d mileage 'cruising' at 30 instead of 50 or 60.
Nowadays, with my Jetta TDI diesel wagon, I can over 60 mpg if I keep it at 40 mph/ 65 kph, but since I always drive much faster, even with high pressure tires, I'm blessed if I can get over 40 miles per US gallon if I'm going freeway speeds.
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The Mobilgas Economy Runs in the 1950's were done like a rally in that you had to hit certain checkpoints on schedule based on your starting time and if you strayed off the course at all or were delayed for mechanical problems, etc, you could be disqualified. Sure, each driver had their litle "tricks" to get the most out of the cars they drove...most (if not all) companies paid a bonus for a good showing. The cars were also checked, certified, and parts of the vehicle sealed by AAA representatives to minimize non-normal activities.
It is worth noting that MOTOR TREND's test of a 1953 Kaiser Manhattan did a little better in terms of fuel economy than the Mobilgas car. Best results on their 45 mile driving loops was at 45 mph, 25.7 miles per gallon in the "overdrive" hydra-matic range. There are several members who, on occasion when traffic and road is straight and level get around 25 mpg in their cars. put this in context; some cars in the Kaiser's price class got less than 20 mpg; when their weight was figured in for that TON-MILE thing, the figures inproved, but you really have to go with straight.
If anyone is interested the 1953 Kaiser Dragon entered did the best in its class with 21.4488 actual mpg; I have the trophy General Petroleum awarded K-F for its showing.
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25! That would be over 31 mpg in my Canadian conception of mpg ;D We had a larger gallon A US gallon is 3.778 Litres (I think) and the Imperial gallon is 4.54609 Litres, so you do the math. That is really quite impressive, all things considered, such as low compression and carburetors. Shame about the HJ/Allstate in this context. But, weight and aerodynamics is important, and no doubt the full size Kaisers were much better in that respect than the smaller HJ, proportionately, and also much better than the earlier bodies.
As the Studebaker engineers knew intimately, know your target market, gear accordingly and you pull out some very impressive figures, test and real life as well. Especially with the fortuitous design of the Borg Warner overdrive of 0.7 which just so happened to be just about exactly right for the torque and power characteristics of their 6 and V8 engines