Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Forum
General Category => Willys Forum => Topic started by: ss442 on March 25, 2011, 06:52:54 PM
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is it true that my 52 aero with the hurricane 6 will get 35 mpg as i was told? mine isnt quite to the point of being street legal yet aka no brakes or lights but i had heard the got 35 mpg and cant wait to find out ..... any input?
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According to road tests of the period, 30-35 MPG was possible at 30-40 mph actual with overdrive engaged. Owing to weight and general characteristics, the Aero Willys performance was not that far off the mark compared to a Henry J of similar set up.
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I'd really like to know where those numbers came from because I've got 3 Henry Js here with the original 6 cyl with OD set up and I've never gotten better than 21mpg on the highway and the best I've ever gotten in town with one was 17mpg and usually they get 15 mpg. We've had many Js over the years and never gotten close to that number so I'm not sure how they got it. I had a '48 Frazer for a number of years and it always delivered better mileage than the J did.
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MPG Claims: Once upon a time, there was the Mobil Economy Run (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobil_Economy_Run) (previously known as Gilmore Economy Run). Manufacturers exploited beneficial results to their advantage. BUT, winners were judged on ton-miles rather than outright mpg. As an example, a 58 Imperial with the 392 Hemi may have gotten 15 mpg, but since it weighed nearly 5000 lbs, that was 15 X 2.5 or 37.5 ton-miles per gallon. Consider a Crosley Hot Shot. It might have gotten 40 mpg, but it weighed only slightly more than 1000 lbs so it got 40 x 0.5 or 20 ton-miles per gallon. So be carefull about the terms of the claim. Also, the drivers were skilled in going the furtherest with the least use of the engine so they might turn off the engine, put the trans in neutral, and coast down a hill and coast up the next so their speed would vary from 20 to 70 and back to 20 mph. Any use of the brakes would be wasting gas so the drivers might coast a 1/4 mile to a stop sign. That is not the way anyone would normally drive.
Overdrive had freewheeling which allowed a lot of coasting without the danger of turning off the engine.
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mpg claims are not acurate ? thats too bad i was realy hoping to get better gas milage .....
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Willys was not entered in the early Mobilgas economy runs but a Kaiser Manhattan got 22.27 MPG while a Dragon with Hydramatic got 21.44 and a Henry J 4 cyl got 28.25 MPG all in the 1953 Ecomomy run. For 1951 a Kaiser got 24.773 MPG, a Henry J 4 cyl got 30.109 MPG and a 6 cyl got 28.860 MPG and a Willys Jeepster 4 cyl got 23.923 MPG. Pretty impressive! The Sweepstake winner for 1951 was a big Lincoln with the flathead V-8 that got 25.448 MPG. I wonder how they did that! The average speeds for the 1951 run was 40 MPH. I don't have the 1952 book but the results should be similar to the others.
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If a HJ 4 cyl got 30 mpg, wouldn't you say the Jeepster 4 cyl with 24 mpg was really rotten? Actually I think 24 mpg with the 134 4cyl, F head or L head might be a reasonable top mpg.
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In the early 1950's, Lincoln-Mercury division of Ford Motor Company hung onto those ton-mile figures as proof that their cars delivered better fuel economy than the competition (rather than actual mpg). Like other entrants, they had professional drivers who were able to "practice" on the course in cars set up similar to the actual inspected and sealed automobile used. I have a number of TOAST OF THE TOWN television shows (the original name of the ED SULLIVAN SHOW) that the car maker sponsored where they told audiences to forget about the MPG, Ton-Miles was the REAL way to determine fuel economy!
The best way to check out fuel economy is to survey the various road tests in MOTOR TREND, POPULAR MECHANICS, SCIENCE & MECHANICS, etc. These tests, done when the cars were new, were done by (for the most part) independent testers. Can you get the similar MPG today? I remember when a member from WI got a Kaiser Dragon and took it to a meet; he claimed 25MPG in steady driving on the highway, which is what my father got with mid-1960's V-8 Pontiacs on the road under best driving conditions.
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I once drove my '54 Aero Eagle with the 161 F-head and 3-speed overdrive from Los Angeles to San Diego and got 31.9 mpg average. I was travelling at highway speeds (65mph or so) on the interstate. The engine was very recently overhauled by John Parker at the time and the entire car was in the best shape it's ever been in during my ownership. Wish it was that nice today.
I have never equalled that feat since, but I did get 26mpg from Denver to Tahoe one time in it and I hit speeds up to 80mph.
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I'm just looking at a Studebaker Engineering factory chart discussing the mileage >at steady speed< for 1959 Larks with 6 and V8, with conventional, overdrive, and automatic transmissions. For the 170 CID 90hp flathead six (starting at 2577 lbs for a 2dr, about 200 more for a 4 dr, up to 3400 for a wagon) I compared a 53 Aero Ace 4dr (2588 lbs, with the 161 CID 90hp engine in the 685A F head seems a good comparison. Both are about the same weight, about the same aerodynamic profile, and both have essentially the same sorts of transmission/overdrive. The Aero had a 4.10 final drive, and the Studebaker 6 in 1959 'normally' came with a 3.54 for automatic, 4.10 for conventional, and 4.27 for overdrive, but there was also a 3.73, and it seems that any of these R/E ratios could be ordered for either conventional or overdrive, and the Studebaker engineers tested all of them. Now, the F head should have been a bit more efficient than an L head, but the Aero only had 7.6 compression ratio to the "improved 59" Studebaker flathead 8.3 compression ratio. The Aero made torque of 135, to the Studebaker 145 (in 1954, the Studebaker 170 had compression of 7.5, HP 85, and torque of 138 so almost identical, but I don't have the mileage figures) Anyway, I would think that they are essentially a wash comparing the two.
CONVENTIONAL
MPH 3.54 3.73 4.10 4.27
20 23.3 23.1 22.2 21.6
30 25.6 25.5 24.6 23.9
40 23.8 23.5 22.5 21.7
50 20.7 20.2 19.5 18.4
60 17.7 17.3 16.0 15.1
OVERDRIVE
30 29.8 29.7 28.7 27.7
40 29.0 28.9 27.8 26.8
50 25.5 25.2 23.9 22.8
60 21.8 21.6 20.8 20.0
AUTOMATIC
30 23.7
40 21.9
50 19.2
60 16.5
Interesting! The key to getting good mileage with an L or F head is to having overdrive, a numerically low R/E ratio if possible (to lower the revs) even further, and to keep the engine speed down at its maximum torque range, which in early 50s terms for a little six, is in the 40 mile an hour range. Nowadays, you could probably increase the mileage a fair little percentage by running on higher pressure radial tires, which have less rolling resistance anyway. As a side note, I drove my automatic 1957 Studebaker Champion, 3.54 R/E, last summer over two days on a 1000+ mile trip at 55-60 mph all the time on 4 lane highways, and it averaged about 19.5 MPG (US size gallon, not Imperial) running on modern radials and Ford rims.
The Aero as I said has a more efficient engine design, and being a bit lighter and bit more aerodynamic, would likely improve on the Studebaker figures a small but noticeable amount, so 30+ MPG might be possible if the engine and tires are fresh, the overdrive works, and maybe a tad more on radials---if you keep your speed down to 50 MPH.
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::)
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Try putting 35-40 psi in your tires like they used to do for those tests and it will definitely raise your mpg. It is still being done today as my Prius calls for 35 psi in the tires and I go 400 miles on 8.5 gallons of gas with lots of Interstate driving. It has a gage in the dash that shows your mpg as you are driving and I usually average 50 mpg and going down a long hill it will top out at 99.9 mpg.
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500 mile trip last summer in my 1955 Bermuda, Super Hurricane and o/d. Several mountain passes. Got close to 18 MPG at 65-70 highway speeds. Trying to maintain speed over passes destroys mileage. Tom
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I once drove my '54 Aero Eagle with the 161 F-head and 3-speed overdrive from Los Angeles to San Diego and got 31.9 mpg average. I was travelling at highway speeds (65mph or so) on the interstate. The engine was very recently overhauled by John Parker at the time and the entire car was in the best shape it's ever been in during my ownership. Wish it was that nice today.
I have never equalled that feat since, but I did get 26mpg from Denver to Tahoe one time in it and I hit speeds up to 80mph.
I should add that I was running bias ply tires at the time - either reproduction Silvertowns or Firestones, I've used both.
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Modern Radial tires will improve mileage over bias ply especially with 35 lbs. Modern gasohol will take some of the gain away maybe 5% reduction. Ethanol free gets better mileage but around here costs more so there is no savings. Can't win.
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Don't have a clue what I got with mine in the early 70's but I do remember I ran all over the place for $5 a week.
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My 50 Jeepster with F head and overdrive would regularly get 30+ mpg, however I tended to drive it at modest speeds, generally nothing much over 45 mph. I was running radials and kept them at #36 psi mostly.
Rich Childs
48 Frazer Manhattan
71Citroen Dyane
70 Reliant Regal Supervan