Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Forum
General Category => Kaiser Forum => Topic started by: johny on July 01, 2011, 10:24:54 AM
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I have a '49 Kaiser Special that I intend to convert to automatic with a crate engine. Would appreciate any suggestions about what engine would fit best and what combination of engine and trans. would work best. I am not power hungry so a V-6 such as the Chevy 4.3L is a possibility or a small V-8. If anyone knows a mechanic, preferably familiar with Kaisers, who is located near Chicago I would love to hear from you. Many thanks for your thoughts and ideas.
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KFOCI Club Member Dale Hammon has been involved in installation of V-8 engines and automatics in various K-F cars over the years. He lives in Beloit Wisconsin and is in the membership directory.
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Many thanks for the note and the information.
Best regards,
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johny:
1) How much of the firewall are you willing to cut?
2) Have you considered an inline 6 such as a Chevy 250, Ford 300, or an AMC/Jeep? Get out your tape measure and see how an engine 33 inches long will fit in the engine compartment. There are overdrive automatics available for these engines which may reduce problems with the stock rear end.
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BTW A Kaiser 226 measures 14 inches tall from the oil pan/block seam to the top of the cylinder head (spark plugs and the heater tap add to this measure) while a Chevy 250 measures 16 inches from the oil pan/block seam to the top of the valve cover. So there isn't as much difference in height as you may have imagined.
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When you mention crate engine and transmission, I'm thinking you have certain dollar figure you are willing to spend. Since you aren't THAT concerned with power output, maybe other options might be a lot cheaper (for saving $$$ for other fun stuff) and also fit better with less work and fewer headaches.
Tape measure for sure. While anything CAN be done, remember that the early cars were designed for inline engine parameters. Length of so much, width of so much, and height of so much. This same discussion came up on the Studebaker Forum with someone with a >>1950<< Champion which was the last year of the small 6 and large six. The Commander large six had longer sheet metal to accommodate the longer six. In 1951, they introduced the V8 and were able to simplify the sheet metal problem to have the same (shorter) for all models, but they had to redesign the suspension and front end to hold a wider V8. A V8 will not fit in a 1950 Studebaker car without many modifications, even though on the outside, a 50 and a 51 are virtually identical (the iconic Bulletnose)
What was suggested there I'll suggest here. For a Studebaker, changing from any early flathead 170 six to a later 185 (larger stroke in same block) six with a slight overbore and better carburation can net you 16-35 hp depending on what you do to it, and it is a direct bolt in, weighs the same, and can even be made to look entirely stock if you wish
While not exactly a guaranteed bolt in for Kaisers, remember that Checker used both Continentals and later Chev 6 ie 250 cid with the same transmission options I think, so dimensionally they should be close. In stock form, a Chev 194 was listed as 120 hp, a 230 as 140, and a 250 as 155 hp, and they are all the same block with different internal displacements. The Truck six, 292 would be even better and similar in output to the Ford 300 six.
All of these inline six engines "should" fit quite nicely in the engine bay of an early Kaiser and provide much more hp than the anemic Continental. For that matter, perhaps even one of the inline sixes from AMC/Jeep would do the trick. I have a Wagoneer 4x4 as my car towing/trailer towing vehicle, and the 4.0 L (ie 242 cid) with a 4 speed + lockup Aisin Warner automatic comes all fitted with and for A/C, power steering and brakes, and fuel injection. Besides having enough power, both engine AND that particular automatic transmission are usually completely bulletproof. A rusty Jeep could provide a complete donor drive train, and individual replacement parts are cheap at any recycler/salvage yard.
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You guys are terrific! Thanks for the well-thought out suggestions. I have a lot of homework to do and we'll see where it all leads. My appreciation to HJ_ETEX and Jim B. Pei.
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I would suggest you look at early 80s and later Ford trucks and also Jeep Cherokees. I recommend this because I know a lot about Chevys. You could get a 250 in a 1/2T Chevy as late as 1984 but Chevy 6 cylinder trucks after 1973 tended to be rare and fleet/stripper vehicles. They weren't likely to have AC or power steering. If you do a swap in a KF vehicle, you won't be worrying about PS but you will be wanting AC. There will be enough fabrication required without the added aggravation of figuring out mounts for an AC compressor. But (at least around here) a good number of buyers opted for the 300 six in their F150s in lieu of the small V8 so it should be easier to find an engine with the brackets for the power accessories. And since a large percent of Jeep Cherokee buyers were women, the AMC sixes in those vehicles commonly had a full complement of power accessories.
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I seemed to have failed to specifically mention it, but the Chevy 250, Ford 300 and AMC 232/258/4.0L are all 33 inches long and are 16 to 17 inches tall as measured from the oil pan/engine block seam to the top of the valve cover. The lengths aren't a coincidence; the cylinder spacing on these is based on each companies small V8 designs which means the Small Block Chevy or in the case of Ford & AMC, their interpretation of that innovative design.
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This is off topic slightly, but one of our Studebaker Club members is a mechanical magician and is the only person I know of who has rebuilt TWO separate Packard Ultramatics (a 51, and Twin Ultramatic used in another member's 56 Golden Hawk) and got them to work...without having a workshop manual. This is a story about having a "good eye" for possibilities.
He currently has a Bricklin, a 30 Es***, 2 Rambler Marlins, a Nash Metropolitan convertible, a 55? Studebaker 2 ton V8 truck, a 55 Commander sedan, a 53 Henry J Corsair 6 o/d, a 61 Hawk and a working Studebaker Weasel, all of which he has rebuilt himself from top to bottom. For the 61 hawk, the right side of which was just about rusted away due to bad barn storage, he realized that it would never be a first class car again so he made it comfortable. He added A/C from a later model Cherokee (or Comanche) and surprise, the line of outlets from the Jeep fit across the underside of a 61 Hawk dash panel, and it fits like a factory part as if the Cherokee and the Studebaker were designed by the same guy (well, they were..sort of. The Wagoneer and the Wagonaire were). it works too well, and the Hawk, a car usually just barely marginal in summer with its factory air, well this one is so cold that he has to turn it off after 15 minutes, even in midwest midsummer.
Back on topic. I remember that Hydramatic was not available (yet) to fit in 49/50 to Kaiser/Frazer at the start of production, but was for 51, but the first 6(?) Hardtops/Convertibles in the 51 model year Frazers were still stickshift. Afterwards, ISTR that these top end models were all (or just about all) automatic. The 51 F used the old bodies for one last go round, albeit with nicely updated fenders and trim, but the shells were the same. The KF engineers had to redesign a new transmission tunnel 'hump' piece for the front to accommodate the larger Hydramatic, or else all of the H/C model 51 Frazers would likely been automatic as a "mandatory option"
If you go for say a tough as Indiana Jones combo of a 4.0 L Jeep engine and automatic, remember to measure the tunnel and prepare to do some cutting there to get the transmission in. Better to do that than fiddle with the natural placement of the engine.
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You might look into the Ford 4.6L with the metric automatic tansmission. This is the power plant used in the crown vic and lincolns. The 4.6 is a 281 c.i.d. v-8. If you get the earlier 90's model year the block is cast iron with alum. heads, much better than the all aluminum block set up. The alum. block with the alum heads has no forgivness for overheating and you have to shell out $$$$. to make repairs. Just an idea, also the Lincoln rear end with a little modification fits in the 52 I know.