Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Forum
General Category => Henry J & Allstate Forum => Topic started by: 51HJ on October 03, 2011, 01:38:26 PM
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I'm trying to match the original Aloha green paint and the three paint companies here in town can't even get close to the correct color. Can anyone tell me where I might be able to get this color?
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You may want to contact Mike Hazel at henryjcars.com He recently did a frame off restore on his '51 Aloha green J. Good match on that one.
See the complete project at -
http://www.henryjcars.com/hjc1p1/hjcp1index.html
His e-mail is mike@henryjcars.com
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If you have not tried your local PPG (ditzler) jobber, ask him (or her) to check with the Ditzler Color Library for a current mixing formula. According to old Ditzler information on paint numbers the original K-F paint code #'s they referenced were 390 for enamel or 569 for lacquer. The original Ditzler Enamel number was DQE-41042 and Lacquer number was 41042-DAL. I do not have a Ditzler page showing an actual Ditzler/PPG Aloha Green chip.
The Ditzler Color Library is the storage vault where samples of paint colors going back to the 1920's are stored. The appropriate Chip is pulled and a computer spectrometer reads the sample, producing a print-out to re-create the color using today's available mix items. The Color Library will provide this service to the Jobber at no cost to the jobber, but the mix information stays with the Jobber.
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I had the 41042 number but they ( PPG jobber) couldn't match it. I've also tried Orielly's and Sherman Williams.
I emailed Mike Hazel over the weekend but since his car was painted in 2006 , he is going to look for some info, no guarantee's.
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THE JOBBER GOOFED IF ALL HE USED WAS THE DITZLER NUMBER. Color Library is supposed to be worked off the KAISER FRAZER paint code number and the Kaiser-Frazer color name. If Ditzler had a listing back in 1951 they should have the chip according to the info I got when Ditzler launched the Color Library program.
However, in fairness to all. Aloha Green was only used for a short time at the start of the model year. Before the cars got to dealers, K-F sent out a memo to the dealers that there would be small cans of the color sent with each car in case touch-up was needed. If I remember right, the actual vendor of the color to Kaiser-Frazer was Beckwith-Chandler or one of the other back-up sources.
Carl Spencer wanted just the right touch of irridecence to catch people's notice.
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I'm surprised because, as I've mentioned on here before, a shop near me looked at the paint code on my '52 HJ Vagabond and got the exact paint based only on that information. He read the paint code '325' (Cape Verde green) and was able to get it. If you'd like, I can stop by and ask him how he did it.
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I've noticed with Studebaker and their "Spring Colours" that not all paint chip charts had the information, in an easy to find format or otherwise. Likely due to these being short run series paints, or something very special as in this case with the Aloha Green. People that have carefully researched and matched very tricky paints based on analysis of unfaded paint on hidden away locations on original cars deserve special kudos. Along with Studebaker, Kaiser-Frazer had some colours like Aloha Green and Caribbean Coral that are very hard to match as there are other elements such as particle size in metallic glitter that aren't easily available in modern formulations.
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Aloha Green is on this Paint Chip Set - but no mixing formula was available
http://circlekf.com/kfcars/KFCPDupont_510430.pdf (http://circlekf.com/kfcars/KFCPDupont_510430.pdf)
Aloha green is on this document with a mixing formula
http://circlekf.com/kfcars/KFCPAcme_15ap49.pdf (http://circlekf.com/kfcars/KFCPAcme_15ap49.pdf)
Aloha Green is in this Service Bulletin with reference numbers ... even Ditzler
http://circlekf.com/kfcars/kfsb183s1.pdf (http://circlekf.com/kfcars/kfsb183s1.pdf)
Also in this Service Bulletin
http://circlekf.com/kfcars/kfsb183s3.pdf (http://circlekf.com/kfcars/kfsb183s3.pdf)
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I can't open any of these webs.
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Those files are PDF files ... If you have Adobe Reader on your computer they should open for you.
I have extracted the important information from each of them and stored them in the attached jpg images below.
This should let you see the key information from each document
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I'm glad you asked about the formula for aloha green as I'm going to need to know that information also. With the info that has been posted I was able to get a sample made at our local paint shop and it matches great. They sent a color match request to their R&M supplier and got an answer the same day. They reqested the Limco brand of acyrlic enamel, and urethane enamel. They are waiting for the formula for base/clear which they tell me should be no problem getting. The best info I can pass on to you is the BASF stock number that they were able to reference the formula from. It's 606212. Good luck on your project. Don.
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In my early years with the club, Rinshed-Mason brand was the recommended paint as back then (late 1970's when I got involved in paint stuff). R-M was the only company that could still work off the ORIGINAL FACTORY NUMBERS to create a formula using the currently available colors. It is good to know that we may have a second source for this kind of thing.
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You guys are not even going to believe this! I live in Oklahoma City, Ok. and the only paint dealers here are PPG, and Dupont. and they can't come up with anything. The PPG jobber said that he could try but would guarantee it would be wrong. I will not take a chance on this.
Flat black and a Chevy v8 is looking good, might be the answer. ( Not really)
I'm just frustrated with this.
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Try going to PPG Customer Service on line and tell them what is going on. Also, to be fair, ask them about availability of Aloha Green. While the Color Library claims that they can reproduce any color they made, it may be possible that the claim is a bit of a stretch in some specific cases.
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I'm surprised because, as I've mentioned on here before, a shop near me looked at the paint code on my '52 HJ Vagabond and got the exact paint based only on that information. He read the paint code '325' (Cape Verde green) and was able to get it. If you'd like, I can stop by and ask him how he did it.
Back in the late 70s when I Had my henry repainted I found the color on my local paint jobbers micro fiche sheets. I would think if you can get a sample it should be a color that could be reproduced. When I had my darrin painted we tooke the back of the dash board to have color matched - I was very pleased with the results. - The 1:43 Scale Brooklyn HJ wasn't even close - In the whole time I owned the car only 1 picture was even close to being correct.
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Mitch, Todd Spreck now owns that Aloha Green J you once had. If the match was close, perhaps I can see if someone can do a computer scan of his car and generate the formula. That's what I did when I put the continental kit on my '52 HJ Vagabond. The previous owner painted my car with a hue that was close but had a little more metallic in it so despite the fellow getting me the Cape Verde green metallic based on the paint code, it still would not match what was on the car. The computer scan generated a PPG formula was a perfect match.
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Yes - Todd and I talked about the car for a year or two before he even bought it. The paint should be pretty much right on - it was an original dupont enamel formula - I would think one of the wheels - like the spare - or under the wheel cover - would have had little or no sun exposure and would be a good place for scaning.
I rescued that car out of a junk yard - low serial number & body number - one is 299 and the other is 313. it only had about 46000 miles on it. the only option on it was the heater. I added the vent package and replaced after market wheel covers with the full disc covers.
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I dug up the picture that I had where the color turned out basically correct. I checked out the registry and the car is currently registered under Todd's name. It is the 3rd lowest serial number on ther registry. Glad I saved it from the junk yard.
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Aloha Green was one of the strangest colors ever offered by Kaiser-Frazer. Carl Spencer, head of the Color and Trim department of the styling area created the color so it would catch people's attention and may register as a different car each time one was spotted.
The challenge was that due to supply problems on the 4 cylinder engines from Willys-Overland (there was a war on & the government placed parts orders for heads, blocks, etc to keep the MB's going) there were not enough of the basic cars to go around. Dealers with one HJ in Aloha Green were urged to drive the car around town. People (it was hoped) would believe that there were more of them around locally than there actually were. Spencer got the idea from Irwin Rommel the German general who took a handful of tanks and kept driving them through the streets of Bengazi, Libya when the Afrika Korps arrived there. British agents in the city reported hundreds and hundreds of German tanks were heading for the front as a result of the ruse.