Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Forum
General Category => Kaiser Forum => Topic started by: brian.b on May 10, 2013, 07:13:59 PM
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hey guys,,i bought a 48 Kaiser and it had set for about 15 years,,i got it running but never ran it very long but it would warm up quick,,then I heard about the filters getting clogged and mine was bad,,,would I have to drop the oil pan and clean the pump or could I just flush the whole thing....
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If the filter wasn't changed regularly, the housing can collect sludge. You shouldn't have to clean the pump unless you think the pick up is blocked. Flushing the engine can cause more problems than it fixes. If it's very dirty on the inside you could cause loose chunks to plug the pump pick up, oil galleries, or scratch the bearings. You may find this thread on filters interesting
http://kfclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,1081.msg5450.html#msg5450
I'd suggest an oil and filter change and see how fast the oil gets dirty as a way of checking the internal condition of the engine.
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A friend of mine had a '52 Studebaker that was driven on short trips by the previous owner and was full of sludge. An old time mechanic told us to drive it until the oil got dirty which was between 50
and 100 miles. He then started it and brought it up to normal temperature and while it was
running he added a cup (6-7oz) of #1 kerosene and let the motor idle until the oil pressure began
to drop which took 1 or 2 minutes. He shut the motor off, changed the filter and let the
pan drain overnight. He had to repeat this procedure 4 or 5 times to clean the engine. I know he
drove it for years after that and it ran fine. MY '51 sat behind a barn for years before I got it. The
air filter and oil canister both had sludge in them so I did this same procedure and it worked for me.
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Sometimes when I buy an old car I drain the oil and fish around the drain hole with my finger and see whether it feels like a lot of sludge in the pan after yrs of use, {dont get your finger stuck in pan hole} Some pans are easy to remove and I usually clean them out, sometimes lots of sludge in there. I am afraid that if there is lots of sludge, the flow of oil will be restricted when running at high speed.
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I was just wondering if theres sludge in the oil canister would it block oil from flowing through the engine and make it heat up,,,i can let mine idle for about 5 or 10 minutes and it get up around 160 without a thermostat,,,im not going to run it any more till I change the oil and install a oil pressure guage,,does anyone know how many pounds these cars hold ,,thanks for all the info guys.
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The oil filters on the 226 flathead are bypass filters. In other words, the oil does not flow through them. Instead some of the oil just gets sloshed over into them and cleaned so if the filter and lines are clogged, it won't cause any problems. This type of filter is so inefficient it really doesn't help. I always just made sure I checked my oil often and change it when it gets dirty.
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At normal driving temperatures, a KF engine today should hold 35 lbs of oil pressure at 35 mph. Realistically, most engine have more at startup and drop off to around 30 when warm. The key is to keep the oil clean.
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I want to amplify Lowell's comments on KF oil filters.They are "bypass" filters .On the HJ they take oil away from the fronf cylinder oil gallery.They are not just bad filter design ,but in spme ways harmful to the engine.I leave the filter in place,but disconnect and plug the oil gallery plug that feeds them.I chang oil every 1000 miles.Most of us don't put a lot of miles on our cars these days. On a nother subject ,I flush all the old brake fluid every spring. Have not had a brake cylinder to seize since I instituted the flushing program.
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is there any place here for pics and videos of how to stuff ,,im a member of the diesel truck resource forum and they have a thing called ''the sticky'' if there is one id like to find it ,,,and is there photos of other members cars...and one more thing what should the temperature be in these old cars and would it hurt to run without a thermostat
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I run my 51 Kaiser with no thermostat. I am in Los Angeles area.
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After an incident early on with the Business Coupe, I removed thermostats in all K-F products owned since. K-F engines these days need to run as close to 170 F as possible but not over because current pump gas evaporates at a much lower temperature than when our cars were new (because lead was removed & the replacement chemicals evaporate easier). The bigger concern with the thermostat was to let the water warm up as fast as possible in winter time so the heater/defroster work.
As an aside, the 1991 Sunbird I had (with a V-6 under the hood) with the experimental AC spark plugs didn't have a thermostat in it from the car plant. Had a horrible trip from Madison to Northfield MN south of Minneapolis taking Lauren back to college; air temp was -20 to -30 F and not only did we freeze on the way up, but we had to keep scraping off the INSIDE of the windshield so we could see the road!
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About sludge in the engine. Cars used to use "non-detergent"oil. The meaning of that is deposits and trash were carried along like particles in a water flow and they settled out when the engine stopped. Early 1930s Buicks supposively had baffles in the oil pan to catch such deposits much like panning for gold. I haven't seen any oil labeled as "non-detergent " in more than 2 decades. "Detergent " oil is formulated to keep deposits and trash dissolved or suspended until caught as the oil passes through a filter. One former recommendation was if the engine had a full flow oil filter, then you used detergent oil. If it didn't have a filter such as a lawn mower, motorcycle, then you used non detergent. You don't have a choice now.
What you may not have thought about is the oil pans on cars prior to 1963 (1961 in California) were open to the atmosphere and a lot of sludge that accumulated in the bottom of oil pans and oil filter canisters settled out of the oil when the oil absorbed moisture.
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Thermostats in Engines: Of course you know the purpose of a thermostat is to quickly heat up an engine and maintain that temperature. If the temperature in the engine compartment, especially around the fuel pump and the carburetor, gets too high, then you have the dreaded Vapor Lock. Because Kaisers and just about every other flathead engine are prone to vapor lock, you probably don't want even as high as 180 degrees.
I might point out that when I built my brother's Kaiser/Chevy V8 I used a 180 degree thermostat. He got 22 mpg on one stretch with that set up but due to vapor lock, he put in a 160 degree thermostat. MPG dropped to about 17, but he had less vapor lock problems.
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Non-detergent oil, in straight 30W, is still alive and well and available at NAPA.
Gary.
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Back in the day..Dirt Roads ruled..
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Today........Potholes Rule
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From time to time on ebay, a "sludge sucker" shows up for sale. This gadget is hand-held and is a hand-operated vacuum pump that sucks the sludge out of the old filter canisters. They were a Fram dealer item to help with clean-out during a filter change. I have one of these and they work. I may have a picture at home (the sucker itself is with the K-F parts and stuff in the basement of the KY house).
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I have seen one of those. It really sucks when you use it.