Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Forum
General Category => Kaiser Forum => Topic started by: Weaz on May 06, 2009, 08:55:35 PM
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I was recently reminded that my tires are about old enough to vote, so I have to start looking for the next set. I need your opinions on what to shoot for.
670-15 bias plys or 205 75 15 radials. Wide whites or black. Coker or Diamondback Classics. Personally I am not sure radials sit right with me. I've got Sears bias ply tires now. I like the looks of the white walls on the Special. I'm not sure what was original equipment. I've seen the black side walls on some Kaisers, so I'm not completely against them. What do you think about it from a purely aesthetic standpoint. Might save some dough going the black route...
I've got a case of too much information and not enough cash in my wallet. :(
Point me in the right direction, please.
Artistic rendering of white Vs. black side walls:
(http://www.mortalenema.com/images/kaiserway.jpg)
(http://www.mortalenema.com/images/kaiserwayBSW.jpg)
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Generally I'm a fan of whitewalls, but looking at these side by side I think the blackwalls look darn good on that Special! I prefer bias-ply 1) because they are original equipment and 2) they look better. I love the look of bias-ply tires. Radials just look too modern for me.
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I'm not too keen on the whole idea of getting new rims for radials either.
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I've been thinkng of getting new tires too, and my wallet must be a family member of yours as it's on the broke side too, haha, I'm not sure on tires yet either so I am watching this post with interest. My tires are over 20 years old, but look new, becuase it sit for years, I only drive on weekends, in my small 1300 population town, so I may not get any for awhile, Having said that, I actually responded to vote the white walls look much better, you have a great looking Kaiser. Hope to see it in person someday, and meet you.. take care....
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You can get the original Goodyear 6:70x 15 blackwalls or 4 1/4" whitewalls from Lucas Tire in Long Beach CA. They run about $500 for a set but I have them on my '51 and they look great. It killed me to pay almost the same price for blackwalls on my Graham Paige Frazer but they did not have whitewalls in 1946 or early 1947.
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Thanks, Gordie. I hadn't found Lucas yet.
Their price list puts a set near $700. Can I get a discount if I tell them that Gordie sent me? ;)
I requested a catalog.
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I just noticed your street sign--that's great! Is that real or did you doctor it up?
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Fid took that photo when he was going to sell 'ol Lasagna. Right before she was offered up to me...
*choir of angels*
...and my life was changed forever.
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Weaz, just went through the same thing last Fall. My tires were about 18 years old, WWW, but were cracking on the inside (as I found out after I had them removed). They were "Allstate" brand!! Hey, didn't Allstate make the Henry J (LOL)???
I bought my 6.70x15"'s from Kelsey Tire and the set ran me $643.66 delivered to my door. I bought them from Kelsey because they had the correct 2&11/16" WWW, raised white letters Goodyear Classic Silvertown...they were the standard, correct tires KW used on the 54. I'd do it again in a heartbeat. They look great and ride just fine. I get a number of compliments on them, too. The car came with bias ply, not radials. Not that I have anything against the folks who run radials, its just that I'm a purist. I want my car to be as correct as possible as it came out of Toledo.
Mike
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Another good lead. Thanks Mike!
Looks like I'm gonna have to get creative and conjure up some funds. Anyone in the market or know anyone that would be interested in my prized rear Dana 44 Jeep Cherokee XJ axle? Put it on craigslist. I'll have to sell some Kaiser stuff on eBay as well.
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My two year old Lucas Tire price list shows Goodyear 6:70X15 4 1/4" whitewalls at $140.00 each. I guess that they have gone up some and shipping probably adds another $100 to a set. I decided I wanted Michelin radial tires on my '65 Mustang and they had been on the car several years when I threw the tread on two of the tires with such force that it put a large dent on the top of my fender, wiped out the lettering on the side of the fender and broke off the parking light. I will never again use Michelin tires!
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Yikes! I don't want that to happen.
My tires haven't been out in the heat or elements. She's always been stored inside. I'm sure I'll be fine for the season. I just need to get the ball rolling and do my research.
Maybe I could sell a kidney...
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I went with Coker WW radials because I drive my car. I haven't got anything that will pull it and don't plan on getting anything. My 51 runs much better with them than with bias ply. I've been very happy with my choice even though the set of five was $1005.00 delivered. Some have said here that you have to change the rims or at least watch for cracking of the rims due to the radials. I have yet to discover why that would be the case over bias plies. Is it because of the additional stresses caused by the more aggressive driving feel possible with the radials? Maybe its an old wives tale told so often that it has become accepted fact. I'm totally open to either answer because most of our club has vastly more experience in the cars than I do. So far, I haven't had any problems with them. I've also heard of a problem with the Cokers in that they blow out or maybe the tread separates like what happened to gordie's '65 Mustang. I would love to get some answers on this too.
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I think the part of Weas' question, that has not been answered, is "what modern, inexpensive tire would work on the Kaiser?" I had a '48 Frazer and I used a G78-15 on it. No, it did not look original or authentic but the car was driven daily and they worked fine for that. So the question that hasn't been answered is size, modern tire, would work best a '51 Kaiser? G78-15? H78-15?
I'd like to know myself so if anyone has any input on that please chime in.
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I think F78-15s are the correct size. They are equal to 670-15s. There seem to be more G78-15 choices.
Looks like most searches for G78s are pointing to Coker. They are a bit cheaper than the 670-15s, but if I am to put Cokers on it could only be done with the blessing of the previous owner. I know he has a definite opinion about Coker tires.
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If I'm not mistaken, someone told me coker tires are coker tires regardless if they say "Goodrich" or "Goodyear" on them. I bought four 640 BF Goodrich Silvertown WWWs from Coker for my '53 Henry J back in 1992. They look nice and ride nice but if you drive the car on the freeway it shakes like a dog sh*ting a peach stone and it's those tires. They badly disfigure at speeds above 50 mph. I put a set of coker (also BF Goodrich Silvertown) 590 WWW on my '52 J in 2001 and they're fine. Car rides nice and no problems at higher speeds. I've had the ones that shake balanced multiple times and it doesn't help. The rims are nice and straight, not bent. If I swap tires between the cars, the problem follows the tires. So with coker, it might be hit or miss. I've heard good things, I've heard bad. I think their focus is making the tires look original and authentic and that driving on them at higher speeds is not something they care about.
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Well, to confuse matters more, I got my Diamondback catalog, and they pretty much say that the rim problem is bunk. That there are no bias rims, or radial rims; just old rims and new rims. The safety of radials outweighs the "myth" that radials will crack or twist the rims. They do have some nice looking tires. I guess I won't count them completely out... yet.
I have more catalogs and wizened Kaiser owners to hear from in the near future, so the quest continues.
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If the tire says Goodrich than they will not be Coker tires but Goodrich. Coker Tire is a distributor and sells many brands of tires and they have a few of their own branded Coker. I bought a set of Goodrich Tires for my Kaiser once and by the time I got back to California I had two big bumps in two of the sidewalls. They took care of the problem with two new tires and I never had a problem since. They also were the only company with 12 inch whitewalls for my Playboy and I never had any problems with those. If you can get the correct Goodyear tires I would sure go with them over Goodrich.
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Thanks for the input Gordie. I don't remember who told me, but someone said that Coker bought the old molds from BF Goodrich, Goodyear etc. and makes the tires themselves. I don't know how credible that source is / was. People say a lot of things that aren't true. Of course, I could go to Coker's website and see if I can ask.
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What I had heard tends to agree with what Lowell said (Coker bought the molds). One thing you need to understand is that recently manufactured tires (as opposed to new, but have been sitting in a warehouse for 7 years) are flexible. Tires get stiff as they age so they ride rough and balancing doesn't do much to fix that. Starting sometime in the later 1990s, tires were branded with their manufacturing date. ABC had a story a month or so ago about discovering tire shops selling new tires that had been manufactured some 7 to 10 years ago.
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Well, to confuse matters more, I got my Diamondback catalog, and they pretty much say that the rim problem is bunk. That there are no bias rims, or radial rims; just old rims and new rims. The safety of radials outweighs the "myth" that radials will crack or twist the rims. They do have some nice looking tires. I guess I won't count them completely out... yet.
I have more catalogs and wizened Kaiser owners to hear from in the near future, so the quest continues.
Diamondback details the process in their Catalog. They take brand name tires and - from what I read - vulcanize a wide whitewall onto the original tire. A lot of the work is done by hand and it's labour intensive. But they claim they do NOT have problems with detachment of the whitewalls.
I believe Diamondback can give you wide whites on modern high performance tires.
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I just got tires from Pep Boys: 215/75/R15 radials. Skinny whitewalls on a '53 look fine, for under $300. Cooper trendwest model is the make. Made in USA. The old ones were Guardians polyester bias ply WWW from Sears. They were date stamped April 1978.
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ABC had a story a month or so ago about discovering tire shops selling new tires that had been manufactured some 7 to 10 years ago.
Yeah but those where at Sears. If anyone has any question about when a tire was produced any tire within 2000 has 4 numbers stamped on the tire that give its birthday. For example if the number is 4207 that means it was produced in the 42nd week of 2007. Tires start to get really stiff after 3 years so they should be avoided.
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I got a good set from Kanter and epoxy coated the interior of the rims to run tubeless ww radials. I did balance my rims with a self adhesive weight strip and this helped in the discovery of one bent rim. Also if you are mounting your own tires the valve stem is a larger diameter than the new cars.
I have used Por 15 chassis paint on the interior as a sealer and no complaints.
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Hi,
From a judging perspective, Goodyear tires--6.70 x 15 for a 1951 Kaiser--were the assembly line tire K-F used, with (it seems) B.F. Goodrich and Firestone as secondary sources if Goodyear had supply problems. Any other brand or size would be considered incorrect for judging and points should be taken off. Same goes for radials vs. the older bias-ply types. That said, there is no question that radials will give you better handling on bad roads or in bad weather, but do you want to take your Special (with its vacuum wipers) out in a heavy rain or snowstorm? I've had 6.70 x 15 bias ply type--with tubes--out in various weather over the years and didn't seem much worse than with radials in the everyday driver. This of course is only one person's experiences...how you drive, where you drive, etc will affect the outcome.
It should also be noted for those interested that the full stainless wheel discs standard on a 1951 Deluxe are listed in the K-F parts book as "optional" on a Special and a 1951 issued Confidential Bulletin shows a set of the big covers as a factory installed option on Kaiser Specials delivered retail at Willow Cottage (see Confidential Bulletin #71, 10/31/51). I had them, with goodyear whitewalls on the Business Coupe when I had it and it really looked sharp (the way a good salesman would set it up to impress customers).
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I'm satisfied with my bias ply. I had a 66 Pontiac that also had bias ply and never had any complaints.
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Outside diameters of tires change as one moves from one type to another, belts, bias, radial. That outer circumference of the tire will effect the gear ratio.
I'm a fan of the white walls.
Radial tires DO put more stress on the rims. rims rust over the years, rims can break, especially old rims and radials.