Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Forum
General Category => Henry J & Allstate Forum => Topic started by: msass on June 17, 2014, 01:40:46 PM
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When I push my starter button nothing happens. The battery has a good charge. Is the starter bad?
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First thing to do is to check your ground
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Sometimes, the push button fails. It happened to my 47K. Try jumping the solenoid using a screwdriver across the center post (the post with the small wire attached) to the line that runs to the starter which on your car may be nothing more than a small metal tab. Do this with the key in the on position and the car in neutral with the parking brake set. If the starter turns, then something in the circuit to or from the push button needs attention.
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Before you do anything - question number 1: Is your Henry J equipped with a Delco-Remy or Autolite starter? If it's Delco, Joe's method is a good way to eliminate the starter button (a common failure on Delco equipped Js). I fought with that problem for years. The Delco equipped cars have a larger solenoid which takes a lot of current and often burns up the cheap little starter button. If the car is Autolite, and still wired as original, then you need to take the car out of gear, set the parking brake and then ground the terminal on the solenoid to see if the starter spins. That's the main difference - Delco starter button circuits apply 6 volts to the solenoid, Autolite starter button circuits ground the solenoid.
In either case, if the starter spins when you do this, the problem is your starter button or the wiring to it. The Delco units use 10 gauge wires from the starter button to the solenoid, and they need it! Autolite has a 16 gauge wire from button to solenoid.
Here's a Delco unit -
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a1cf35b3127ccefec8472acaeb00000040O01SatmLdmyB7efAA/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00203070160520111115051650692.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
and here's the Autolite
(http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a1cf35b3127ccefec96cc1aac100000040O01SatmLdmyB7efAA/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00203070160520111115052827839.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D550/ry%3D400/)
Not the same at all. Different starter buttons and different wiring.
If your car is a '51 or a '52 Vagabond, it will have Autolite. The '52-'54 Corsairs had Delco but there were some rare cases where the later cars had Autolite.
For years NAPA carried the starter button for the Delco units but not any more. I found a good sub at my local Fleetfarm in the Auto department, part number BWD Automotive UN28760. You can also get one at www.autorewire.com
The Delco style can be used in the Autolite equipped cars. Simply ground one terminal and connect the other one to the wire that goes to the starter solenoid. The Autolite style cannot be used in the Delco equipped cars - too weak of material and only has one terminal as it just grounds the wire through the switch to the dash.
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I have an autolite starter. Nothing happens when I ground the solenoid.
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Then the problem could be your starter or solenoid. It is possible that the solenoid was replaced already with the type that was used on Fords which looks the same but the difference is, that one needs to have 6 volts applied to it as opposed to being grounded as the original type is. My '52 Vagabond was like that when I got it. I have since found an original solenoid and changed it back. The Autolite starter is actually pretty easy to remove so you may be able to remove it and test it. Before doing so, take a set of jumper cables, with the car in neutral, connect one end to the neg (hot) battery terminal and touch the other end to large lug on the solenoid between the solenoid and the block (hard to get at) and see if the starter spins. If it does, the problem is likely the solenoid. If not, it's the starter.
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Starter would not spin. Guessing it must be the starter. I took it off and took it to my local electric motor shop.
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Most of the time that a starter won't operate is caused by a poor battery connection. Clean the battery post and battery connection and presto!
A voltmeter placed across the battery post and its clamp will find the problem. With the starter solenoid energized, there should be zero volts on the meter.
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Everything looks to be good as far as the electrical system goes. The engine is trying to turn over but won't fire up. What's my next step?
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Put a small amount of gas in the carb, being careful to make sure it all goes in. If the engine tries to start, you have a fuel system problem. If no, could be ignition issues.
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I'd say it tried to start. Are we looking at a carburetor problem?
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More likely a fuel delivery problem. Disconnect the fuel line at carb, pull the coil wire so no ignition, direct fuel flow into a container. Crank engine a few seconds and see how much goes in the container. If little or nothing, you have a blocked fuel line/filter or tank sock, or bad fuel pump. If plenty of fuel, carb could be at fault. Ignition not likely since it tried to start with gas put in carb.
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When I push my starter button nothing happens. The battery has a good charge. Is the starter bad?
So, first the engine does not turn over. Now it turns over but won't start.
What did you do to make the engine turn over?
One step at a time. ???
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I replaced the solenoid and they cleaned up the starter and put new brushes in it. Now it really wants to go, it's even "coughed" a few times, but it just won't go. There is spark. I disconnected the fuel line at the carb and it sure seems like plenty of gas is coming out, so that leads me to believe that it is something in the carb. Is this a good assumption?
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Probably a good assumption. Take the top off the carb and see if the float bowl is at least half full. If not, could be a problem with the float valve.
Is the choke plate closed as it should be when cold? Or do you have a manual choke?
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Is the Key on? Does 6 volts show up at the Coil before and during attempting to start?
A flaky wire from the ignition to the coil can do some spooky things.
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It is a manual choke.
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Check compression. I had some gummed up sticking valves and it made it a bear to start. Replaced the valves, two were burnt, and it starts like a champ.
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I replaced the solenoid and they cleaned up the starter and put new brushes in it. Now it really wants to go, it's even "coughed" a few times, but it just won't go. There is spark. I disconnected the fuel line at the carb and it sure seems like plenty of gas is coming out, so that leads me to believe that it is something in the carb. Is this a good assumption?
If you pour some gasoline down the vent tube in the air horn, close the choke and the engine tries to start but won't quite get going, try cleaning the points. On cars that aren't used much, the points get dirty and produce a poor spark. Pull a folded strip of 320 sandpaper through the points. Works for me.
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After many trial and errors and testing. I think we have come to the conclusion that the spark is poor. We have sanded contact points and made sure the wires were OK. Would replacing the distributor and all of that fix the problem? That is kind of where we are headed next I guess.
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Is the spark orange or blue? If blue you may be looking in the wrong place. If orange and weak looking, I would replace the points , distributor cap and finally the coil before replacing the distributor. Sanding the points produces a rougher surface than new ones and is just a temporary way to get going. Are the plugs new and gapped properly? Are the plug wires in good shape and do they have metal wire inside (rather than radio shielding type)?
Before electronic ignition came along, replacing the points, plugs, wires and distributor cap were the components of a standard tune up!
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Thanks. Planning on replacing that stuff. Would my local NAPA have all of that?
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Have you replaced the small wire In the distributor I fought this sane trouble on my 51 it solved my problem
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Not sure what the "small wire" is but you just reminded me of a part I haven't thought of in 30 years- the condenser. Should be replaced along with points. Doubtful NAPA will have them all these days but maybe they can order them in.
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The small wire on the 51 distributor is a ground wire they runs from the outside case to a ground inside, mine frayed in two there are two connections one is for the condenser the other is the one I refer to put a volt meter on it to see it it is open