Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Forum

General Category => Willys Forum => Topic started by: nikkelectrik on November 18, 2015, 11:19:50 AM

Title: my block is orange?
Post by: nikkelectrik on November 18, 2015, 11:19:50 AM
Was ther a factory colour for the motor in the Kaiser supersonic? Mine is chev orange and idk if that is correct

Sorry to ask so many questions friends  but I do wish to complete restore  as if she drove off the  Ohio assembly line
Title: Re: my block is orange?
Post by: vettelang on December 12, 2015, 09:27:33 AM
The 226 was silver. Hope that helps.
Title: Re: my block is orange?
Post by: kaiserfrazerlibrary on December 22, 2015, 10:58:36 AM
Silver was never used on the Kaiser 226 engine.  Paint color depends on model year year.  It can be green (different shades) , gray, or red
Title: Re: my block is orange?
Post by: kaiserfrazerlibrary on December 23, 2015, 12:14:21 PM
The F-head 161 cubic inch 6 used in the Willys vehicles was orange.
Title: Re: my block is orange?
Post by: Aeroman on December 27, 2015, 03:12:12 PM
I will find the documentation where I got this and list it (it was factory documentation, Jack- I believe it was a service bulletin), but the 685 engine (161 F-head ) had:
blue block for low altitude export (below 5000 ft),
light gray block for high altitude export and low altitude domestic
yellow for high altitude domestic.

Cylinder heads were blue for low altitude export
black for high alt export and low alt domestic
yellow for high alt domestic.

Peripherals: Black for valve cover, starter, generator, air cleaner.
Natural metal: distributor, carburetor, exhaust manifold.
Engine color: timing cover, oil pan, bell housing, crankshaft pulley, harmonic balancer.

There was no orange block F-head engine. Where did you get your info?
Title: Re: my block is orange?
Post by: kaiserfrazerlibrary on December 28, 2015, 10:52:38 AM
The CYLINDER HEAD being different colors for different types of service (export, high altitude, etc) is quite correct.  I thought we were talking about the block.  My info also off service information was back when it first came out in the 1940's.  I had nothing to indicate colors changed from that time frame.
Title: Re: my block is orange?
Post by: joefrazer on December 28, 2015, 10:54:51 AM
I had two Aero parts cars, both with 161 f engines and both had light grey blocks.
Title: Re: my block is orange?
Post by: Aeroman on December 28, 2015, 03:13:29 PM
I was only quoting colors for blocks, heads and peripheral attachments for 1952-1955 Willys Aeros with the F-head 6-161 made in Toledo or Maywood, CA. I do not know the prior wagons, trucks and Jeeps. Jack - you are probably correct about them. The F-head 6-161 was a new engine, introduced with the Aero Wing. There is also an F-head 4-134 available in Jeeps, trucks and some export Aeros. The F-head 4 was available before the Aero was introduced and maybe that was orange, I do not know.
Title: Re: my block is orange?
Post by: Aeroman on December 28, 2015, 03:18:17 PM
So most of the Aeros with the F-head six that we will run into will be low altitude and therefore light gray blocks. The thing I find strange is that they should also have black heads and every car I can remember had a light gray head as well. I do not recall ever seeing a black head. So would that make every Aero incorrect based on factory documentation when, apparently, the documentation is incorrect?
Title: Re: my block is orange?
Post by: kfnut on December 28, 2015, 08:43:11 PM
Are you talking head or valve cover ?
Title: Re: my block is orange?
Post by: MarkH on December 28, 2015, 10:23:30 PM
The '52/'53 parts book lists cylinder heads in blue, black & yellow and engine assemblies in the same colors as well as the light gray. I have 2 engines, one with a gray head for sure, plus another head, definately gray. The only other colors I've seen is an orange Brazilian Jeep engine, Brazilian Aero engines in red, blue, green and aqua(restored).

Speaking of the light gray, it almost seems like a cream. Anyone ever found something close, or duplicated it?
Title: Re: my block is orange?
Post by: Aeroman on December 29, 2015, 02:53:56 PM
Back in the early 1980's, when John Parker and I overhauled my F-head 6, he repainted it a cream color which looked nice and accurate, but, as it turns out, is incorrect. He said it was pretty close and I seem to remember that it did look like the block that we removed, which was the original engine. I never lost points at a KFOC Nat'l, but then, who really knew?
Title: Re: my block is orange?
Post by: Barnum on December 29, 2015, 08:19:07 PM
This 52 Ace appears to be pretty stock.....the F161 is blue  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Willys-Aero-Ace-/111860924880?forcerrptr=true&hash=item1a0b6e41d0:g:wTgAAOSwt6ZWVMX8&item=111860924880
Title: Re: my block is orange?
Post by: MarkH on December 29, 2015, 10:38:14 PM
Back in the early 1980's, when John Parker and I overhauled my F-head 6, he repainted it a cream color which looked nice and accurate, but, as it turns out, is incorrect. He said it was pretty close and I seem to remember that it did look like the block that we removed, which was the original engine. I never lost points at a KFOC Nat'l, but then, who really knew?

 Cream certainly seems a lot closer to describing what I'm seeing, especially when compared to something like Ford gray or any other engine gray. Nothing I'm seing so far in engine paints is close.
Title: Re: my block is orange?
Post by: Aeroman on December 30, 2015, 02:31:56 PM
This 52 Ace appears to be pretty stock.....the F161 is blue  http://www.ebay.com/itm/Willys-Aero-Ace-/111860924880?forcerrptr=true&hash=item1a0b6e41d0:g:wTgAAOSwt6ZWVMX8&item=111860924880

According to the VIN, this car is a standard-issue 1953 Aero Ace 2-door sedan for domestic use. The blue block is for a low altitude export car, which this is probably not. Curiouser and curiouser.
Title: Re: my block is orange?
Post by: Barnum on December 30, 2015, 06:24:54 PM
Interesting indeed, as they have it listed as a 52. Also possible the engine just got painted blue somewhere along the way. Or the engine is from another car. Hard to say where it all went wrong :)
Title: Re: my block is orange?
Post by: joefrazer on December 30, 2015, 07:31:05 PM
Complicating matters is the fact that Sears painted their remanufactured engines blue. The plot thickens...
Title: Re: my block is orange?
Post by: Barnum on December 30, 2015, 08:00:04 PM
I had thought it was sears that did that...but wasn't sure,,,,,,what did Wards do ?
Title: Re: my block is orange?
Post by: rialto on December 30, 2015, 08:11:04 PM
I think Wards painted their engines gold or possibly silver.
Title: Re: my block is orange?
Post by: MarkH on December 31, 2015, 09:56:17 AM
Having an Aero that's pretty much assembled from leftovers, I wouldn't be surprised at anything, even a domestic car with an "export" engine.

I think I saw an export ad once saying the '54 hubcaps with the red pinstripe around the "W" were export hubcaps.

A couple years ago a crusty Aero with a 4 cylinder turned up either on craigslist or ebay. I think it was in Missouri.
Title: Re: my block is orange?
Post by: Gordie on December 31, 2015, 01:00:35 PM
The Eagles came with those deluxe wheel covers and they were also used on the later Jeep Surreys in different colors.  I have a blue set as well as the red on my Eagle.
Title: Re: my block is orange?
Post by: joefrazer on December 31, 2015, 01:26:43 PM
Another wrinkle, my '54 Aero Eagle Custom was delivered with small caps and trim rings.
Title: Re: my block is orange?
Post by: Aeroman on December 31, 2015, 02:09:31 PM
As far as I can tell from the parts manuals and supplements for the Aero, trim rings for the wheels were never an accessory. Full wheel discs were optional in 1952-1954 and standard on the 1955's (except exports: according to the registry, they all came with the 1954 dog dish).

According to the registry and corroborated by the parts manuals:
1952's just had the corporate embossed "W" and no color on both the hub cap and the full covers.
1953's were like the 1952's except they had the "W" (unpainted) in a circle of red on both the hub cap and full covers.
1954's were like the 1953's except they added a single red ring around the red circle on the hubcaps. Full wheel covers had two rings and some were green or blue instead of red, depending on body color. I have never seen green or blue on the hubcaps, but I found a pic on the internet of a black Ace Deluxe with black instead of red on it's hubcaps - I think that was owner induced.
1955's looked exactly like the 1954-55 Kaiser full wheel discs except it had a "W" instead of a "K."

I'll post pics later if y'all want.
Title: Re: my block is orange?
Post by: joefrazer on December 31, 2015, 06:19:13 PM
Rick, come to think of it, you are correct. I do recall the seller telling me that he pulled the trim rings off his trade in, a 49 Ford. Interesting because it's been said that the Aero's design was lifted from that of the 49 Ford...
Title: Re: my block is orange?
Post by: Barnum on December 31, 2015, 09:07:09 PM
 Having owned both a 49 Ford and an Aero the similarities are evident.And I think the Aero had a little more flair :)I still can't decide if I want the small caps and trim rings...or the full disc.
Title: Re: my block is orange? BLUE DARRIN ENGINE
Post by: Terry T on January 01, 2016, 10:17:39 AM
During restoration of my Darrin, I bought the "correct" engine paint from good-old Fred Walker.
I had him ship the paint directly to my mechanic.
Here is the result!!

Looks like good-old Fred got me again, and again, and again!
Title: Re: my block is orange?
Post by: mbflemingkf on January 01, 2016, 07:16:56 PM
Posts attacking deceased club members serve no purpose.  Lets let these guys rest in peace.

Few, if any of us, live in glass houses. 

Just my opinion.
Title: Re: my block is orange?
Post by: kaiserfrazerlibrary on January 01, 2016, 09:12:00 PM
The Aero's design was a Clyde Paton original.  The 1949 Ford Connection is that prior to picking Paton's design, Willys-Overland looked at a freelance submission by Bob Kyoto who worked for ford.  Bob thought that he had the deal sown up in 1947 only to find out different.  He then took it to ford and the rest as they say......
Title: Re: my block is orange?
Post by: nikkelectrik on January 03, 2016, 03:06:15 PM
Wow y'all are very knowledgeable thank you very much  for the information
Title: Re: my block is orange?
Post by: Aeroman on January 04, 2016, 02:26:39 PM
I read a quote from Art Kibiger, designer at W-O. He said the outside contour of the Aero door was lifted directly from the '49 Ford. He did not say who actually did the lifting.
Clyde Paton was the engineer and driving force behind the Aero. The styling of the car was initially by Phil Wright with upgrades and assistance from Bill Mitchell (later at AMC - not the one from GM or the one from Ionia Body) and Ceasar Testaguzza, clay modeler. 1955 styling upgrades were by Buzz Grissenger and Herb Weisinger (check the spellings on those names).
Title: Re: my block is orange?
Post by: Aeroman on January 04, 2016, 02:33:34 PM
The designer of the 1949 Ford has always been in contention. Four different designers claim it for their own: George Walker, Bob Koto, Richard Caleal and Robert Bourke. General consensus is that Caleal gets most of the credit with the others were involved in varying degrees. See: http://auto.howstuffworks.com/1949-ford4.htm
Title: Re: my block is orange?
Post by: Corsairdeluxe on January 04, 2016, 05:31:35 PM
Auto design...I represented the carpet product promotion activity for a large synthetic carpet fiber company. I made a product presentation to the Cadillac design center in Detroit. George Moon was the head designer. My idea was to use patterned carpet as a design element instead of the plush they all used at the time. They were all very polite and non committal in the presentation. Afterwards, Mr. Moon told me, "We consider the carpets function to be covering up the junk the assembly workers leave on the floorboards".
Title: Re: my block is orange?
Post by: kaiserfrazerlibrary on January 04, 2016, 06:46:27 PM
That's a better response than hearing later that something was rejected because we didn't think of it first in house.

Remember also that the styliish mid 1950's Lincoln was not approved for production as it should have been because a senior Ford Motor Co. engineer felt he was "not consulted" on a different project the way he felt he should have been.  That's why the 1955 Ford Motor Company lineup didn't get a new Lincoln body in 1955 like it should have, and got it in 1956 instead.