Kaiser Frazer Owners Club Forum
General Category => Kaiser Forum => Topic started by: shawn_and_his_kaiser on April 21, 2016, 06:30:50 PM
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This doesn't look fun... I need to redo my rear brakes in my much loved 1951 Kaiser Special. Advice?
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Will require a drum puller. I got mine in a puller set from NAPA. It includes a good variety of pullers to do most any type of pulling required. Cost me about $100.00.
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Here's an old thread that might be helpful.
http://kfclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,1552.msg8018.html#msg8018
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Hello, I'm doing the exact same job as we speak, got all rear brakes hardware off and cleaned up, rebuilded the cylinders.
I'm ready to re-assemble but missing one sring on one side. The lower smaller one.
Is there a standard spring kit that would get me one ? (maybe a kit for a more recent model that would include an equivalent spring)
Thanks
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Try NAPA. Have seen them on ebay as well.
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The lower brake shoe anker spring is KF part number 200189. Looks like it was used on all KF except HJ and Darrin.
This could possibly be the same one. Have a look at one of yours and compare.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-KAISER-WILLYS-JEEP-9-BRAKE-LOWER-SHOE-SPRING-1953-71-805602-/182111502176?hash=item2a66b0ff60:g:Oy8AAOSwPhdU8myu&vxp=mtr
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How did it go taking those rear drums off, were the cylinders easy to rebuild?
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Guys,
So, I just re-assembled the rear brakes with cylinders I rebuilded myself.
I bled all 4 corners and after I applied brakes a few times, no more leakage but those rear brakes don't seem to fully release...they drag without applying brake pressure now (parking brake is not even connected yet and eccentric adjusters are not even touching the shoes).
Is that a common behavior with self-rebuilded cylinders (something people forget or do wrong)? Any tips ? :'(
Thanks
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Check the adjusters - it sounds like they may need some fine tuning.
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Check the adjusters - it sounds like they may need some fine tuning.
You didn't mention the fronts binding or how crusty or clean the assembly is but assuming it's clean:
You reassembled the rear cylinders with exactly the same type of parts that came out?
1: Ditto on the adjusters.
2: Pull a drum & see if you can push the piston in the rest of the way by pushing the shoes by hand or a clamp.
3: Sometimes the inner lining of the rubber hoses will swell enough to constrict the line, brakes work great with pedal pressure but won't fully release. This will cook your brakes, and more.
4: Possibly the friction points where the metal edge of the shoe frame rubs the back plate need a dab of lithium?
5: Were your springs stretched or did the coils snap tight when they were removed?
The first time I had #3 happen it was a real stumper. I recently read somewhere that a rubber line has a 6yr life although almost all I've owned were never changed.
On the DOT 5 fluid issue.
I'm doing some brake work on my Aero, got new rear cylinders installed and ordered a rebuild kit from NAPA this morning to freshen up an NOS master cylinder being installed. I asked about DOT 5 and they checked with the suppliers tech support who said to use DOT 4 with their kit.
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I have to add a big YES to MarkH comment #3, I had issues with one car that had complete swelling closed of rubber brake lines, while you have it apart or if you have doubts check them early on in your brake repair. I had 3 lines closed on one car and it made me nuts till I found it.
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3: Sometimes the inner lining of the rubber hoses will swell enough to constrict the line, brakes work great with pedal pressure but won't fully release. This will cook your brakes, and more.
I agree. Change the hoses - 2 in front, one in back. They shrink and swell shut. Take one off and see if you can blow air though it - my guess is you won't be able to.
If you can't, replace it. If the car has the original hoses, just replace them regardless.
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OK, my rear brakes seem to be working now but even though I bled all brakes, I always have to press twice on the pedal cause the first time the pedal is spongy, the second time is ok ? Does that confirm the hoses theory as well ?
Thanks for all your advices by the way, I'm posting this for the benefit of others unexperienced fellows with old stuff, like me.
Bernie
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Pedaling twice is not normal, probably adjustment, a bit of air or soft hoses.
1: Set adjusters on all 4 wheels for slight drag
2: Air in the lines
3: Soft hoses
4: Check valve in nose of master cylinder allowing too much back flow so residual (at rest) line pressure drops below 10lb per sq. in.
Thoroughly re-bleed the brakes till fresh fluid comes out every cylinder.........after fitting new hoses.
Since drag was your primary issue, AND you've had the system opened up & apart, #4 is a long shot but can cause this. Drums require 10lbs, discs 2lbs of back pressure to eliminate excessive pedal travel.
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I am developing a theory about bleeding brakes ... especially rear brakes on old Kaisers with saggy rear springs. Jack up the differential to insure it is higher than the master cylinder. Brake fluid is very thin and air bubbles will rise toward the wheel cylinder if it is higher. Or float back to toward the master while you pump it up!
Whatch all think??
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Hi on old cars when bleeding brakes you should always use a vacuum bleeder or you will ruin the master cylinder seals, you see with normal braking over the years there is a buildup with dirt behind the seals then when you start pumping the pedal when bleeding the seals will travel over the dirt and it will ruin them.
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Brakes can feel spongy if the shoes dont contact the drums perfectly. If they pump up they arent adjusted correctly. This is assuming you have all the air removed. Also be sure you have a small amount of free travel at the top of the brake pedal to assure the M cyl is completely released.
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The rear brakes are not perfect but not bad now. When bleeding all 4 brakes with a vacuum pump, I noticed that I can't get a real clean and free stream of oil on the front brakes. I'm betting on the hoses theory now... we'll see !
I got new hoses on order, will let you know once replaced.
(The master cylinder was replaced last year with a rebuilded unit)
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If it's you lines causing the brakes to stick you can Jack it up pump up the brakes then try and spin the wheel ,if it's sticking then crack the blender plug to let the built up fluid out ,,then the wheel should turn free infill you pump them again.......rock auto has the hoses ...and a good deal most of the times....
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side note... i drilled out the rivets holding the drum on the REAR hub...
and taped the holes and bolted them back ....
ya ya i know HOW they come off normally and do and have done it the NORMAL way...
but i have had NO problems
i have ALL new cylinders shoes and MC ... on all fours .... 8)
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Either the master cylinder needs a rebuild or you still have air in the lines. Do the 2 man bleeding system to get the air out. And make sure the bleeder is shut before the other guy or girl lifts the foot from the brake pedal. I've seen it too often that the foot lifts before the bleeder is tight and air goes right back in.